Unveiling the VKB TECS Throttle Control System - Page 16 - ED Forums
 


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Old 01-08-2018, 10:46 AM   #151
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Guys I have had a little tidy up in the thread, please stay on topic and discuss the VKB TECS Throttle only.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:22 AM   #152
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This throttle certainly looks interesting but I wonder if I'll be able to use it easily to fly the A-10, as it doesn't appear to have the same number of hats, switches, etc. on the throttle as the Warthog. I don't really care about what controls are on the base, as it's not that hard to build a switch/button box if necessary but building the actual throttle levers and the controls on them is beyond me, and most people I imagine.

The other aircraft I'd like to fly is the F-16 and whilst the Cougar throttle is obviously ideal for that I don't have room (or funds) for multiple throttles, so when choosing which one to buy I'm looking at whether it will lend itself to being used easily with different aircraft.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:41 AM   #153
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Before someone's feelings get hurt for not understanding that text written on a forum does not convey tone... this is not directed at any one person or post.

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Originally Posted by doveman View Post
This throttle certainly looks interesting but I wonder if I'll be able to use it easily to fly the A-10, as it doesn't appear to have the same number of hats, switches, etc. on the throttle as the Warthog...
I keep seeing this over and over again (not exclusively in this thread or forum or throttle) and I really don't understand what the problem is. This isn't an A-10 throttle, this isn't the Thrustmaster Warthog. If you want that so bad, you already have it. If ultra realism is your thing, then don't buy this. I don't know if it's official but I understand that VKB wants to make modular grips so I'm sure that if there is enough demand for an A-10 grip, they will make one. This is not it.

They make the MCG now which has WAY more buttons than the real A-10 stick, so anything that you don't have room for on the throttle you can put there. Again, if you are so against using anything other than the Warthog grip, you've made your choice. Don't buy it.

Then there is the fact that I'm sure you will be able to either use a mode switch or a shift button with their software, which means you can DOUBLE the hats to have a total of 4 4-way (with push I assume) and 4 2-way switches plus 4 buttons at the thumb. That's WAY more than the A-10 has or needs. To say you can't use this to fly the A-10 is just being stubborn. Is it perfect? Probably not. But either figure it out, wait for an A-10 specific grip, or just use the already available replica.

Do I think the grip could use more functions? Maybe. I'd personally really like a rotary at the thumb like the X-55 to be used for zoom. But to keep comparing this to a throttle that already exists is a little excessive. No, it's not an A-10 throttle. No, it's not supposed to be.

And hurry up and take my money.
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Last edited by Sideslip; 01-12-2018 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:46 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doveman View Post
This throttle certainly looks interesting but I wonder if I'll be able to use it easily to fly the A-10, as it doesn't appear to have the same number of hats, switches, etc. on the throttle as the Warthog. I don't really care about what controls are on the base, as it's not that hard to build a switch/button box if necessary but building the actual throttle levers and the controls on them is beyond me, and most people I imagine.

The other aircraft I'd like to fly is the F-16 and whilst the Cougar throttle is obviously ideal for that I don't have room (or funds) for multiple throttles, so when choosing which one to buy I'm looking at whether it will lend itself to being used easily with different aircraft.

Compared to the Warthog, it looks like it primarily short the mini joystick, otherwise everything is there and a little more. I see what appears to be an antenna elevation wheel, which is a good thing for many aircraft. I don't fly the A-10C very much, so I think I could live with the throttle for that purpose, and it would in many cases be a better throttle for flying other aircraft. I am very interested in this throttle!
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:55 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by streakeagle View Post
Compared to the Warthog, it looks like it primarily short the mini joystick, otherwise everything is there and a little more. I see what appears to be an antenna elevation wheel, which is a good thing for many aircraft. I don't fly the A-10C very much, so I think I could live with the throttle for that purpose, and it would in many cases be a better throttle for flying other aircraft. I am very interested in this throttle!
It also lacks two 3-pos switches (A-10/F-15 has four), and we don't know if those 3-pos switches that VKB installed are momentary or toggle. Most western aircraft have at least one 3-pos mode switch on the throttle itself.
This one has more buttons though, and the elevation axis is a very welcome addition.

Basically it's a throttle made after modern Russian jet (of which in the sim we have, um.... zero). Trying to mimic USAF style HOTAS with it will always require some compromises. No one here said it couldn't be done, it's just not always very practical.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:45 AM   #156
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few more switches would be good for those who don't want to buy front module. so that we can use these switches as flap and landing gear levers.
and i agree, more hats are always welcomed. because, a single hat means 4 buttons!
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:59 AM   #157
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I don't even remember did I add my comment about this, but one of the things that I love in G940 throttle is the 2x4 button colored LED button layout front of the throttles:



One of the reasons is that you can make nice two groups of 4 buttons in each like in a KA-50 you have right side of 4 buttons to be the AP channels. And then the four on left side be the weapon panel (Auto-Turn, Moving Target, A/A etc). And then with multiplier you get them as well operate separately on "Left" and "Right" side mentally.

Then when going ie. to Su-25T, it is easy to do different layout mentally, top 4 buttons are for flight modes (NAV, AG, AA, Emergency HUD) and then bottom row is for a normal flight operations. Then with bindings the 4 button group on right side turns to be a Left/Right engine management and 4 button group on left for landing (top left = LNDG flaps, bottom left = LNDG gear, top right = Chute, bottom right = wheel break)

The 2x4 button layout helps a lot to change a mental layout of the buttons and functions across all different modules with the multipliers. In VR this is great as you can easily just take hand down and immediately spot what button you are pressing. And with multipliers like pinky switch on stick means "Flight Operations" as stick is what you use to fly the aircraft, while a modifier in throttle is for weapons management. And so far only the KA-50 is the only module that has required me to use a third modifier for the datalink management and as left hand is on throttle, it must be on stick too.

This IMHO has been huge advantage to me over any other throttle as the layout of 2x4 buttons is so clear and easy, that I am tear apart between this and Virpil design as the Virpil has the same 2x4 button layout!

The layout is so generic that you can build a mental mapping to almost any aircraft functions. Like with Viggen you can set the two buttons in row to operate specific dials, upper moves to right, bottom moves to left. And then you set each pair from left to right either in the required order you need to do it in cockpit, or you position them on left/right side as you see them in cockpit.

And this has helped a lot with some modules that I haven't flied for long time as I don't remember what I need to press and do, until I get in cockpit and I just remember that "multiplier for flight" and then I can just look the cockpit and it comes from muscle memory right away what I need to do in given order as I spent half hour in the first time to map the HOTAS for the module.

This VKB throttle now looks more to me that it is not possible such way, but requires the more common way that one switch/button = one function and then you need to find them to each places. And using multipliers actually can be more demanding as every button or switch is only in pairs and then each pair has different kind buttons and switches next to them.
But then again less multipliers can be good if there is enough buttons and switches to get all without one, what requires full throttle to be bought!

And this is the great thing with these "third party" manufacturers like now VKB and Virpil (as I see them such, because they are not so famous for general people like Logitech, Saitek, Thrustmaster) that we have got these "underdogs" to deliver something very unique and great that blows all these others away. And you buy these HOTAS systems from them for your life.... I seriously believe that these HOTAS systems these are manufacturing are ones that we talk in the next 15-20 years and we have our childs (and some has their grandchild's) to remember them "Oh, and he/she had this amazing HOTAS" while all these popular options are forgotten after second generation comes to market.

So for the price that the manufacturers here are asking, is to me more of the investment than a fun factor. One can go and buy a Thrustmaster HOTAS just for fun for a year, while these are for serious "collectors items" and totally worth the money.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:11 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideslip View Post
Before someone's feelings get hurt for not understanding that text written on a forum does not convey tone... this is not directed at any one person or post.



I keep seeing this over and over again (not exclusively in this thread or forum or throttle) and I really don't understand what the problem is. This isn't an A-10 throttle, this isn't the Thrustmaster Warthog. If you want that so bad, you already have it. If ultra realism is your thing, then don't buy this. I don't know if it's official but I understand that VKB wants to make modular grips so I'm sure that if there is enough demand for an A-10 grip, they will make one. This is not it.

They make the MCG now which has WAY more buttons than the real A-10 stick, so anything that you don't have room for on the throttle you can put there. Again, if you are so against using anything other than the Warthog grip, you've made your choice. Don't buy it.
THAT!

If you are A-10C fan.... You must buy the Thrustmaster Warthog... There is no question about it! That is the ONLY HOTAS that you should own just for that aircraft as it is exactly for its operations!

The same is with why Thrustmaster comes out with the grip for that HOTAS to be used with DCS: F/A-18C so you just keep going.

Everyone else is doing more or less generic ones. Logitech (Saitek) is one of them, while still trying to somewhat mimic something.
And then there are like Virpil and VKB that throws in even the kitchen sink just so you can go and map things across different modules.

My habit and logic requires a generic HOTAS, as I want to keep my hands on them more than other. I don't want to move hand to mouse and use it, as it breaks the immersion. That is as well why I want VR experience be such that I can just look the switch/button and press button on HOTAS to click it. That works fairly well but we would need a dynamic cursor in HMD so it would move up/down depending the angle we look downward or upward as currently it is from impossible to very difficult to press buttons and flip switches that are rear from the knees as the crosshair is locked to center. Yes, you can again go and move the mouse cursor somewhere else but it is again using the mouse, so no go.

And having something like the VKB MCG is crazy as you get so many functions in single stick that with modifier you can have almost everything else with it!

And this throttle has so much functions that I can't even yet spend time to start thinking how I would bind things for it as all is just in pairs. Like two buttons and two flip switches next to each other?

But lucky to us, we have a way to do easily (non-soldering required) a custom button boxes with the famous board, all required is to get the box/board, buttons/switches and then wire and make such as we want.

And yet I can't do more than just admire these work that manufacturers like VKB is doing, as you can see there is behind all of it a deep passion to simulation flight.
Something that I experienced only in 90's when flight simulation was the thing before Doom and Quake were out and gaming on PC was more for adults and younger ones spent on their home computers front of the TV with stick with two buttons....
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:36 PM   #159
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...That is as well why I want VR experience be such that I can just look the switch/button and press button on HOTAS to click it. That works fairly well but we would need a dynamic cursor in HMD so it would move up/down depending the angle we look downward or upward as currently it is from impossible to very difficult to press buttons and flip switches that are rear from the knees as the crosshair is locked to center...
Nah. What you really need is a pair of tracked gloves with pressure sensors in the index finger and thumb so that you just reach for the switch, put your fingers together, move the switch or turn the knob, and let go. We can dream can't we? Probably in the next 10 years.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:33 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Sideslip View Post
I keep seeing this over and over again (not exclusively in this thread or forum or throttle) and I really don't understand what the problem is. This isn't an A-10 throttle, this isn't the Thrustmaster Warthog. If you want that so bad, you already have it. If ultra realism is your thing, then don't buy this. I don't know if it's official but I understand that VKB wants to make modular grips so I'm sure that if there is enough demand for an A-10 grip, they will make one. This is not it.
If this isn't a suitable substitute to the Warthog throttle for use with the A-10/F-16/western aircraft then that's fine. I've just seen a fair few complaints about the build quality of the Warthog so was hoping I might be able to buy something better built and I've seen people say they're looking forward to the VKB throttle so that they can use that instead of the Warthog, so I was just asking if that will be practical. I don't care if it's not exactly the same as the Warthog (which I've never used, so I'm not accustomed to it) as I want something that I can use with several aircraft, so of course it's going to be a compromise but if it's lacking controls I'll need so that I have to do something awkward to replicate them or take my hands of the throttle to use the mouse then I'll have to get the Warthog throttle. Ideally of course I'd buy multiple throttles and a collective with changeable button boxes for the helos but I can't afford that unfortunately (and such collectives don't exist as far as I'm aware)

Quote:
They make the MCG now which has WAY more buttons than the real A-10 stick, so anything that you don't have room for on the throttle you can put there. Again, if you are so against using anything other than the Warthog grip, you've made your choice. Don't buy it.

Then there is the fact that I'm sure you will be able to either use a mode switch or a shift button with their software, which means you can DOUBLE the hats to have a total of 4 4-way (with push I assume) and 4 2-way switches plus 4 buttons at the thumb. That's WAY more than the A-10 has or needs. To say you can't use this to fly the A-10 is just being stubborn. Is it perfect? Probably not. But either figure it out, wait for an A-10 specific grip, or just use the already available replica.
I'm only interested in getting a throttle as I'm going to use my modded FFB2 (with FLCS grip) for the stick, so the throttle has to have sufficient controls on it. Mode shift/shift button is just too confusing for me I'm afraid, I need to have a physical hat/boat/etc. for each cockpit one, even if they're not in the same place as on the real throttle.
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