On Speed (Final Approach) AoA Indexer - 20 Knots Faster after latest Update

DCSW Latest stable version is 2.5.5.33184

Instant Action - Caucasus FA-18C Case I Carrier Landing (Fuel ~ 5,000lb)

After the last stable release version (2.5.5.33184), my On-Speed AoA Indexer Indication is 20 Knots faster Indicated Airspeed.

Previously: 135-140 KIAS would be On-Speed

Now: 160+ KIAS is On-Speed (150 KIAS is Slow)

Something is Rotten in the State of Denmark - and something is Rotten with this Instant Action Mission.

Maybe Just me - Why? - No Clue.

Anyone else having to go faster ?

Hm, I *just* came in from landing, pretty loaded at 36k lbs total weight, onspeed was roughly 140 - 145 KIAS. Persian Gulf, so pretty much around sea level.

My first thought is you hadn't selected full flap.

Yupper

My first thought is you hadn't selected full flap.

Yup - Needed Flaps. Confused Flap Droop for Auto-Flap Extend (like F-16 Viper Flaps come down with Landing Gear Extension).

With Full Flappers - On Speed AoA Indexer (3 Degree Glide-slope) translates to 132-135 KIAS.

Problem Solved - Problem was 'Moi" ! :cry:

"R-Square Control Stick Actuator...Ops Checks Good"

;)

"R-Square Control Stick Actuator...Ops Checks Good"

 

;)

Haven’t heard that in ages! Flightline speak!;)

Guess I should have read the Manual

FA-18C Flaps operate differently than some other Aircraft and it helps to understand how they work.

Flap Switch 'Auto' - Visually from Chase View (F2), after lowering the Landing Gear and slowing down - it appears the Flaps come down Automatically (based on AoA) - and they do (but only partially) along with matching Aileron Droop. In Auto with only partial Flap deployment - Approach Speed will be Higher for an On-Speed AoA Indexer Indication.

Flap Switch 'Half' or 'Full' - Flaps operate manually to Half or Full Extension based on AoA (so they are still semi-auto). Funny thing though, at Half or Full Flaps - the Speed-Brake Retracts - Pilot can Fan it Out, but it will immediately Retract when Pilot releases Speed-Brake Extend Command. Guess the Design Engineers though Half/Full Flap provided enough Drag (without Speed-Brake) on their own to Keep Engine RPM Up at Approach Speeds.

Didn't intend to make such a Big 'FLAP' about it :pilotfly:

Landside my considerations of flaps are,

a. because I'm lazy and in a hurry with a M2000 following me around on my six for instance, I don't use flaps, straight in, as long as I can touch down < 200kts I won't have a risk of blowing tires,

b. with no flaps there is also the consideration of Weight and Runway length. Heavy > 38000 or something, you really need to pay close attention to stay at the underside of 170kts despite semi stall when heavy, or you’ll run out of runway,

b. I’m still in a hurry so whatever the weight I’ll use only half flaps to have more speed inbound and on final for more roll control and lower threshold speed because of the horrible brakes of the FA-18C,

c. I use full flaps because I am way heavy (plans/mission changed thus loadout, land to rearm) and need control to land lowest speed possible on a stupid short runway and be braking really hard (Gudauta, Perian Golf islands)

YRMV

If you land without flaps, how do make them stay in the up/retracted position?

Btw, on the real F/A-18 the brakes aren't nearly as bad as in the DCS version.

If you land without flaps, how do make them stay in the up/retracted position?

Btw, on the real F/A-18 the brakes aren't nearly as bad as in the DCS version.

Well, it's rather the 'Auto' 'flaps/aileron droop/slats' flaps switch up thing. In F2 you see no movement rather invisible, but if you DDI your FCS you can notice that with the flaps switch Up in 'auto' the AoA will still tend to go move towards about "8" if in steady descend.

The FCS knows better than you how to descend on finals it appears, you just keep the F18 in the envelope just above stall to keep your runway short, or below blowing tire speed if you can't help yourself heavy and with an endless (PG) runway. YMMV

Thanks for clarifying. With the flap switch in auto the FCS does extend the flaps, so you don't land 'without flaps'. That's why I was asking how or why you land with the flaps retracted/up.

Thanks for clarifying. With the flap switch in auto the FCS does extend the flaps, so you don't land 'without flaps'. That's why I was asking how or why you land with the flaps retracted/up.

OK, but my guess is in 'auto' mode it's the whole 'flaps/aileron droop/slats' config that drives the lift/AoA, and then hardly the flaps part, but perhaps you can tell us how much % flaps movement there still is in 'auto' compared to half/full?.

Below 250kias, LE/TE Auto 34°/17°, Half 34°/30°, Full 34°/45°

Below 250kias, LE/TE Auto 34°/17°, Half 34°/30°, Full 34°/45°

That still is 50% of half flaps, that's a lot (that ain't rendered), good factoid, knowing this it's no surprise landing w. flaps 'auto' is as it is.

That still is 50% of half flaps, that's a lot (that ain't rendered)

These are the maximum values. The actual flap angle depends only on AoA.

If you fly the approach rather fast at e.g. 3° AoA the TE flaps will only extend to 5°.

The interesting thing when landing with the flaps in auto happens when you reduce the speed upon approaching the threshold.

The flaps will continuously extend further until touchdown, from the above mentioned 5° to e.g. 15°...if you flare.

These are the maximum values. The actual flap angle depends only on AoA.

If you fly the approach rather fast at e.g. 3° AoA the TE flaps will only extend to 5°.

The interesting thing when landing with the flaps in auto happens when you reduce the speed upon approaching the threshold.

The flaps will continuously extend further until touchdown, from the above mentioned 5° to e.g. 15°...if you flare.

It's a feature, and we will have to ask DCS to render the movement (one day, no hurry, TGP first plz thank you) because that will definitely look cool.

Very strange that it isn't animated, since the auto flap scheduling is definitely simulated/animated.

Unfortunately I can't test it myself within the next few days.

Very strange that it isn't animated, since the auto flap scheduling is definitely simulated/animated.

Unfortunately I can't test it myself within the next few days.

pffff you had me worried there I missed it.

Just ran a pattern, T/O 37000pnds, Mavericks and a full bag, 350kts downwind, base leg under 250, gear down, flaps auto/switch Up, down to 180kts approaching threshold (FCS induced AoA 8°), took a F4 look 'on/over the right wing' in a replay which I never do,

waddayaknow, its animated @bbrz., flap moving, correcting, wild guess circling 10°, looks really cool if one is into that.

DCS, my humbling stupid apologies for missing the effort made in the FA-18C.

Great that it works :) (and that the FBW systems apparently nicely masks the actual flap movement)