Is this a bug? - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-24-2019, 03:37 AM   #11
bbrz
Member
 
bbrz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 756
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeriaGloria View Post
So your leftward leaning lights point straight down the runway
Exactly. Isn't that what you want?
bbrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2019, 03:49 AM   #12
AeriaGloria
Member
 
AeriaGloria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: LA
Posts: 587
Default

Yes, sorry if I wasn’t super clear. I was trying to inform Alireza that such a circumstance is a reason to thank the off centered lights “in the F1 view” as they said. I probably should’ve quoted the post
AeriaGloria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2019, 04:48 PM   #13
Ironhand
Veteran
 
Ironhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alireza.kh View Post
i didn't know that before. so it is not a bug. but this should be good for real life landing. i didn't find this helpful in DCS from F1 view yet.
It's especially helpful if you're in an aircraft whose nose blocks your view forward after the roundout just prior to landing. This isn't as much of a problem for the MiG-29 but in others--MiG-21, for instance--you can't see forward once you're in the final stages. The instruction is to look left and forward (works out to be about 20° or so to the left) to pick up the runway margin so you can stay aligned and to judge your height above the runway. So, that's the direction the lights point. They light that margin very well.

The MiG-29 manual (or the one I usually refer to, anyway) carries the same instruction. In the sim, I find it easier to judge my height above the runway, if I look left. Otherwise I have to rely on the HUD readout which is a bad crutch. Sooner or later you might to have to land that bird with a broken HUD.
__________________
http://rsoro.host22.com/Flankertraining_Images/Flankertraining_Banner-1a.jpg

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

Last edited by Ironhand; 06-24-2019 at 04:50 PM.
Ironhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2019, 08:54 PM   #14
Alireza.kh
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Tehran
Posts: 108
Default

i understood about benefits of this lights direction. but i was pointing the poor light illumination in dark night in DCS, which i hope to see improvements in future. i was not sure that these lights direction is fixed to left or pilot can change it to right side or straight? if it is fixed, what would happen in real life night landing and heavy wind from left side?
__________________
ASUS X470F Gaming
Ryzen 2700X@4.2
Noctua NH-U14S
GTX1070 8GB
16GB-3000-Cl16
1TB 860evo SSD
ASUS PG278Q
Thrustmaster HotasX
Win10Pro 1903
Alireza.kh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2019, 10:53 PM   #15
Weta43
Veteran
 
Weta43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Aro Valley Wellington New Zealand
Posts: 6,899
Default

But imagine how reassuring it would be with a heavy wind from the right side.
__________________
Cheers.
Weta43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 04:59 AM   #16
Ironhand
Veteran
 
Ironhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alireza.kh View Post
...i was not sure that these lights direction is fixed to left or pilot can change it to right side or straight? if it is fixed, what would happen in real life night landing and heavy wind from left side?
They're fixed. And does the wind's direction really matter? Left or right, until you square up and point your nose down the runway, you're not landing anyway.
__________________
http://rsoro.host22.com/Flankertraining_Images/Flankertraining_Banner-1a.jpg

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.
Ironhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 05:18 AM   #17
bbrz
Member
 
bbrz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 756
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhand View Post
They're fixed. And does the wind's direction really matter? Left or right, until you square up and point your nose down the runway, you're not landing anyway.
Don't know about the MiG-29, but many jet fighters have to be landed with the full crab angle and can't/shouldn't point the nose down the runway like e.g. the T-38, F-5 and the F-15.

If you have to land the MiG-29 at night and with a crosswind from the left, then things are bit more difficult, but you still have the runway edge lights for guidance.

Btw, since you have to land airliners (almost) wings level, you sometimes need to land with the full crab angle as well which has been demonstrated nicely by e.g. Boeing test pilots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljOxo0s33sI

Last edited by bbrz; 06-30-2019 at 05:34 AM.
bbrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 05:46 PM   #18
Ironhand
Veteran
 
Ironhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,989
Default

My only real life experience with crosswind landings (where I was paying attention, anyway) were from the passenger seat of light aircraft. In all cases the aircraft was de-crabbed (???) after crossing the threshold. My only real life observation of military aircraft performing crosswind landings was a single instance of an F-16 (I think--it was awhile ago) which also squared up and landed with the nose facing down the centerline.

I also remember reading something from Boeing about crosswind landings that highly recommended not landing crabbed...don't remember the aircraft in question. So I guess I've assumed it was possible for most/all aircraft. Unfortunately I'm old enough to know better than to assume.

I'll have to do a bit more translating to see if I can find anything difinitive for the Russian aircraft.
__________________
http://rsoro.host22.com/Flankertraining_Images/Flankertraining_Banner-1a.jpg

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.
Ironhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 07:11 PM   #19
bbrz
Member
 
bbrz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 756
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhand View Post
My only real life observation of military aircraft performing crosswind landings was a single instance of an F-16 (I think--it was awhile ago) which also squared up and landed with the nose facing down the centerline.

I also remember reading something from Boeing about crosswind landings that highly recommended not landing crabbed...don't remember the aircraft in question.
That's weird because especially the F-16 should be landed with full crab since: the ARI switches off at touchdown and undesirable yaw transients may occur if roll control is being applied during this time.

Concerning airliners. Of course you are always shooting for an aligned touchdown in a crosswind. The problems start with higher crosswind components.
Since you should land in a wings level attitude, you start to drift to the downwind side of the runway as soon as you are pushing off the crab angle.
Usually you start the decrabing just before or even during the flare, but due to the swept wings you have to counteract the upgoing 'wrong' wing and a touchdown on the downwind side landing gear is the last thing you want.
Hence, with a high crosswind component you simply have to land fully or at least partially crabbed. Especially on a wet runway.

Landing in windy conditions can be a real challenge in fighters https://youtu.be/5BJP7H52_YM?t=13

Last edited by bbrz; 07-01-2019 at 10:54 AM.
bbrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2019, 02:46 PM   #20
Ironhand
Veteran
 
Ironhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
That's weird because especially the F-16 should be landed with full crab since: the ARI switches off at touchdown and undesirable yaw transients may occur if roll control is being applied during this time. ...
I thought I was watching an F-16 because ANG F-16s base out of Burlington. It's very possible I am wrong. It was "modern" whatever it was. It was interesting for me to realize awhile back that I can identify the Russian birds much more accurately than the US.

Haven't found it in the MiG manuals I have but I did discover in the Su-27 manual that you land crabbed in that bird and adjust after the main wheels are in contact with the runway:

"4.3.7 When attempting to land in a cross wind, fight the tendency to drift by adjusting your course right up until touchdown. Once the main landing gear are on the runway and before touching down with the front gear, smoothly depress the rudder pedal to establish the aircraft along the runway’s axis and keep it from veering by moving the control stick against the wind. The displacement of rudder pedals and control stick motion after touchdown is 1/3 and ½ respectively.

Once the nose wheel is on the ground, adjust the rudder pedal position close to neutral and begin braking. If necessary, the drogue chute is released after the nose wheel is on the ground. During the landing roll with the nose wheel down, counter the tendency to turn opposite the wind by steering with the nose wheel and applying the main brakes, if necessary.

After the landing roll or upon the controller’s command, drop the drogue chute and release your shoulder straps."


I tried with a light crosswind (3-4 m/s crosswind component) and it works as advertised. I still need to try it with something stronger.
__________________
http://rsoro.host22.com/Flankertraining_Images/Flankertraining_Banner-1a.jpg

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.
Ironhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:13 PM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.