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Old 08-22-2017, 05:13 PM   #21
firmek
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Originally Posted by amazingme View Post
It is funny (for me) how people won't get the simple fact that DCS World is not about balance, in any way. ED never stipulated that they will bring a "balanced" set of planes for Normandy. People forget what DCS is all about.. it is a study combat sim and a very "niched" one. Sure, it'll be ideal to have all the planes ever produced modelled in DCS, but it's easy to understand that this will never happen.
"The DCS: Normandy 1944 Map is centered on the World War II battlefield of Normandy, France and is specifically created to depict the period after the D-Day landings and the establishment of several allied airfields in Normandy to support the beachhead breakout in late June 1944."
I think you misunderstood the word "balance" in context of this discussion. It's not about "balancing" a multiplier game by giving both sides an equal chance.

As you say DCS is about a simulation. It does a great, actually the best job as for simulating a specific airframes.
If you look however from a wider perspective, what makes a real simulation is the complete environment. At the end, the all great fidelity of a specific plane quickly diminishes if we can't put it into a realistic scenario, historical context and fly against an opposition that it had to deal with in real life. In this respect seems that the modules development could be more coordinated and synchronized towards complete theaters.
Using a race car simulator analogy - if you want to feel like a Formula 1 driver, I guess getting an fully fidelity Formula 1 car module will not give you a complete experience. You want to race other Formula 1 cars and race them on a Formula 1 race track in a Formula 1 sezon. Or maybe it's enough to have a Formula-1 car module but race it with monster trucks on a rally car section in a touring car championship? Yes, that's exaggerated but quite often could serve as an illustration of the current DCS MP scene (and ability to setup SP missions).

To continue however on the original post. To be fair it should be said that the Bf-109K and Fw 190 were done before probably there were any plans for Normandy. With the current state of the arts however, even considering that the axis modules are from the end of WWII period IMO DCS is more in a need of other modules and especially AI units. The last probably don't have to come in such a great quality as WWII assets pack. Going on quantity route instead of superb quality would be probably an better choice for AI. After all, after an initial "wow" moment when admiring the AI models with F2/F7 views, AI units end up to fill in the battlefield in order to create an immersion and serve as a “cannon-fodder”. During engagements I guess most of us don’t have time nor are close enough to admire the details.
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Old 08-22-2017, 05:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by firmek View Post
I think you misunderstood the word "balance" in context of this discussion. It's not about "balancing" a multiplier game by giving both sides an equal chance.

As you say DCS is about a simulation. It does a great, actually the best job as for simulating a specific airframes.
If you look however from a wider perspective, what makes a real simulation is the complete environment. At the end, the all great fidelity of a specific plane quickly diminishes if we can't put it into a realistic scenario, historical context and fly against an opposition that it had to deal with in real life. In this respect seems that the modules development could be more coordinated and synchronized towards complete theaters.
Using a race car simulator analogy - if you want to feel like a Formula 1 driver, I guess getting an fully fidelity Formula 1 car module will not give you a complete experience. You want to race other Formula 1 cars and race them on a Formula 1 race track in a Formula 1 sezon. Or maybe it's enough to have a Formula-1 car module but race it with monster trucks on a rally car section in a touring car championship? Yes, that's exaggerated but quite often could serve as an illustration of the current DCS MP scene (and ability to setup SP missions).

To continue however on the original post. To be fair it should be said that the Bf-109K and Fw 190 were done before probably there were any plans for Normandy. With the current state of the arts however, even considering that the axis modules are from the end of WWII period IMO DCS is more in a need of other modules and especially AI units. The last probably don't have to come in such a great quality as WWII assets pack. Going on quantity route instead of superb quality would be probably an better choice for AI. After all, after an initial "wow" moment when admiring the AI models with F2/F7 views, AI units end up to fill in the battlefield in order to create an immersion and serve as a “cannon-fodder”. During engagements I guess most of us don’t have time nor are close enough to admire the details.
I think your F1 motor racing analogy hits the nail on the head! It is the analogy I have often thought of myself, but never posted. Thank you and well said.


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Old 08-22-2017, 05:57 PM   #23
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I understand the analogy and I couldn't agree more, but as I said before, it's just wishful thinking. The reality is much more complex than this when it comes to budgets, human resources, expanses and so on. My feeling is that ED is already on the right track but the amount of work needed to fulfill our wishes is.. you tell me..

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Old 08-22-2017, 06:25 PM   #24
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by amazingme View Post
I understand the analogy and I couldn't agree more, but as I said before, it's just wishful thinking. The reality is much more complex than this when it comes to budgets, human resources, expanses and so on. My feeling is that ED is already on the right track but the amount of work needed to fulfill our wishes is.. you tell me..

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The point is amazingme, that we would be grateful if ED could communicate and tell us.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but you do not appear to be a representative of ED. Therefore, your comments on things like wishful thinking, reality and complexity re budgets and resources and so on strike me as likely to be assumptions on your part. Please, I don't want to offend anyone or see this thread go down hill so it can be closed, but the request from the OP is rather simple to answer I would have thought and a 1944 technological time line Spitfire or a cannon armed Tempest V is not asking the earth by any means.
Wags has explained in a live stream video recently how it does not take long to produce a war bird compared to the lengthy time span needed to produce a modern fast jet. So, perhaps more warbirds would bring money in at a faster pace for ED and allow them more resources in the long run for other projects to expand and improve business profits overall.
Finally, some communication from ED with greater detail regarding their bigger vision, aspirations and a road map for WWII is a reasonable request I would have thought. Particularly now that there has been a change of circumstance regarding expected aircraft. Perhaps when ED have had a chance to review the changed situation they may be able to give us some more information. I suspect that many of us may want to hear more from ED regarding the direction and plans they have for WWII.


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Old 08-22-2017, 08:37 PM   #26
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My common sense tells me to stop here and let an ED representative to answer your questions.. a WWII roadmap would be perfect.

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Old 08-22-2017, 08:38 PM   #27
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I think this is the key to understanding ED's choice of 109 and 190 models
They picked up the pieces to the RRG Kickstarter, when they picked up, much of the research investment was already committed to these 2 aircraft and it would have been a huge loss and time delay to backtrack.

Similarly, with the P-51. The variant we have is based on the information they had, it was planned before DCS WWII, they are trying to correct that now by adding a P-51 more common to 1944 Normandy, and who knows, maybe we will see something like this in the future for the 109 and 190... but I havent heard anything about it besides the AI planned.

As for the Spitfire and the OP.

We are still getting clipped wings, we are getting bombs and we are getting drop tanks. No word on timing, but all is planned.
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