AWG-9 and current AIM-54 behaviour

Hi

I'm trying to unravel two things. Predominantly I've flown the F-14 as pilot, but figuring out how the radar/lantirn work has been a joint task between me and my RIO.

If you're losing a track on the TID in TWS due to notching are your options at that point:

a) quickly switching to P-STT or PD-STT?

b) hitting the Track-Hold button?

We're finding when targeting say an AWACS flying in a circle, it will just disappear for periods of time as it flies in a circle. I would have thought notching the AWG-9 would have taken a bit more effort than a lazy A-50 circle?

Second question is on the AIM-54, I understand that currently it behaves "like the AIM-120", but 90% of posts tend to drift towards talking about how it should behave, rather than how it does under the current missile code. Does this mean that:

1) It's presently accepting course-corrections for it's full flightpath

2) It never ordinarily cuts over to Pitbull on it's own seeker

3) If lock is lost on the AWG-9, it will go Pitbull?

3) P-STT and PD-STT are meant to be Maddog and SARH respectively, is this the case or are they also ARH?

If you're in TWS, have fired and swap to STT, will that alter the missile guidance?

Regarding the 54, just assume it is pretty much active off the rail and you can break lock/track whenever you want. In reality its guidence and different cases are way more complex and intricate.

I'm trying to unravel two things. Predominantly I've flown the F-14 as pilot, but figuring out how the radar/lantirn work has been a joint task between me and my RIO.

 

If you're losing a track on the TID in TWS due to notching are your options at that point:

a) quickly switching to P-STT or PD-STT?

b) hitting the Track-Hold button?

 

We're finding when targeting say an AWACS flying in a circle, it will just disappear for periods of time as it flies in a circle. I would have thought notching the AWG-9 would have taken a bit more effort than a lazy A-50 circle?

This might help

Thanks, I'll have a look

Currently AI chaffs and goes evasive the moment you launch the Phoenix in TWS mode, which has got to be incorrect - right?

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The Phoenix is active off the rail at the moment due to DCS limitations. The AWG-9 can’t talk to the Phoenix missile in flight. So the AI reacts the instant it’s launched.

Currently AI chaffs and goes evasive the moment you launch the Phoenix in TWS mode, which has got to be incorrect - right?

 

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In ny test, AI do chaff when missile is fired, but they go evasive later.

In my test they go evasive like 5sec later or so.

I really hope this will be fixed!

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I wonder if the PK of the Phoenix against the AI will improve with TWS A and the updated missile. I had quite a hard time on that 1v1 :D The AI also chaffs at the moment the missile is fired and goes evasive later on.

Tacview-20200223-172156-DCS.rar

1) It's presently accepting course-corrections for it's full flightpath

2) It never ordinarily cuts over to Pitbull on it's own seeker

3) If lock is lost on the AWG-9, it will go Pitbull?

3) P-STT and PD-STT are meant to be Maddog and SARH respectively, is this the case or are they also ARH?

1) Yes, my understanding is that it does.

2) Unsure what the question is here. I believe right now it receives mid course guidance and then goes active around 10nm like an AMRAAM does.

3) Yes, I believe right now the Phoenix will actively acquire targets itself without a track from the launching aircraft regardless of what mode it was launched in.

4) This is completely wrong. P-STT and PD-STT are Pulse and Pulse Doppler Single Target Track, respectively. These are both STT modes, with PD using a Doppler notch filter to reject clutter while P-STT does not - just like Pulse Search and PD Search. The Phoenix equivalent to a maddog launch is setting the Missile Mode Switch on the ACM panel to Boresight.

I wonder if the PK of the Phoenix against the AI will improve with TWS A and the updated missile. I had quite a hard time on that 1v1 :D The AI also chaffs at the moment the missile is fired and goes evasive later on.

That's an interesting question. When all the updates are complete the Phoenix will be a lot more dependent on the AWG-9 maintaining guidance, and the AWG-9 should do a better job of maintaining locks. Overall it will probably be a wash, but I'd guess the Pk to maybe go down a little for TWS launches and up a bit for STT launches - which may push pilots to utilize the Phoenix in a manner closer to the way it was used in real life.

4) This is completely wrong. P-STT and PD-STT are Pulse and Pulse Doppler Single Target Track, respectively. These are both STT modes, with PD using a Doppler notch filter to reject clutter while P-STT does not - just like Pulse Search and PD Search. The Phoenix equivalent to a maddog launch is setting the Missile Mode Switch on the ACM panel to Boresight.

I was more querying the launch modes which apply for those radar functions. I should have used Pitbull rather than 'Maddog', but I'm going by the conversation here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=238762

Reading it a bit more, it sounds like PD-STT is meant to launch in pure SARH, but at least at the time of that thread it wasn't implemented and was waiting on the new missile API/TWS-A. So launching in PD-STT will still erroneously give an active missile.

In my test they go evasive like 5sec later or so.

I really hope this will be fixed!

 

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I have a test mission where I'm fighting 2 x Su-33 + 2 x Tu-22.

Starting to shoot AIM-54 in TWS at 40Nm on Flankers, Tu-22 are lagging 20Nm behind.

Each 4 planes start to chaff when AIM-54 is launched at them, which is weird.

"t" being missile's launch time

Lead Su-33 (launch at 40.2Nm) starts evasive when missile is 17Nm around t +30"

Wingman (launch at 39Nm) is breaking right with Phoenix at 18Nm and t +26", but maybe he just starts to follow leader ?

Lead Tu-22 (launch at 61Nm) goes defensive when missile is 7.5Nm at t +1'26".

Wingman (launch at 58.5Nm) goes defensive when missile is 7.5Nm too and t +1'24"

Off course, Flankers do evade Phoenix (going for chaffs when beaming) and Tu-22 are destroyed.

So, I don't pretend to know for sure what triggers AI evasive, but it isn't just missile launch, or maybe inside a given range ?

I have a test mission where I'm fighting 2 x Su-33 + 2 x Tu-22.

 

Starting to shoot AIM-54 in TWS at 40Nm on Flankers, Tu-22 are lagging 20Nm behind.

 

Each 4 planes start to chaff when AIM-54 is launched at them, which is weird.

 

"t" being missile's launch time

Lead Su-33 (launch at 40.2Nm) starts evasive when missile is 17Nm around t +30"

Wingman (launch at 39Nm) is breaking right with Phoenix at 18Nm and t +26", but maybe he just starts to follow leader ?

 

Lead Tu-22 (launch at 61Nm) goes defensive when missile is 7.5Nm at t +1'26".

Wingman (launch at 58.5Nm) goes defensive when missile is 7.5Nm too and t +1'24"

 

Off course, Flankers do evade Phoenix (going for chaffs when beaming) and Tu-22 are destroyed.

 

So, I don't pretend to know for sure what triggers AI evasive, but it isn't just missile launch, or maybe inside a given range ?

I've updated my test mission by eliminating the human factor and made the F-14B and the F-15C duke it out by themselves. And i observed the same behavior by both AI's (set to excellent), they each start chaffing as soon as they get launched upon, so it's not just a Phoenix thing.

In my experiment, the F-15 launched at 33 NM out and the F-14 started chaffing. The F-14 launched at 23 NM and the F-15 started doing the same. As soon as both missiles got somewhere around or bellow 10 NM they each went into defensive breaks as well.