AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE

No, the statement was:

 

"Even Starforce requires a phone home from time to time." https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3306838&postcount=110

 

And now you confirmed that Starforce only attempt to phone home, and if the attempt wasn't successful, I still can run the game. Therefore for starforce to phone home is not a requirement to run the game. In contrast to the new drm.

That entirely depends on the settings the publisher used when integrating the protection.

They can leave an unlimited offline time out if the machine's hardware profile doesn't change, or they can set a specific number of days.

I dont know what settings ED uses when they integrate Starforce protection, nor the 3rd parties.

But if you wanna guess, unplug your LAN, and set you PC Date 6 months ahead, reboot, and launch DCS w/ no internet and see how the starforce consoles behave.

But Starforce itself does require a phone home every 31 days, the difference is what happens if it cant refresh data.

And all this debate/back and forth is coming up now w/ the AV-8B, yet, it was never mentioned when ED Switched from Starforce to Steam DRM on Steam, which requires a internet connection to verify licenses as well.

So is this really about the Phone Home, or about E.D.

As Stated, the new DRM Auth. Process is in the Beta and Likely the Alpha Branch for the AV-8B only for the time being, and ED is gathering feedback, and will make changes based off the feedback and usage numbers.

But in 2017, I seriously doubt a 100% unlimited offline mode, if that were the case, might as well not use DRM at all and give every module away for free.

Starforce Pro-Active was far from a perfect solution:

-Activation issues w/ Strict hardware changes

-Activation issues w/ Regional Server Downtimes

-Activation Limits w/ 31 Day Refresh

-Counterfeit Licenses Being Produced

-Fraudulent Licenses Being Purchased and re-sold

-Cost to integrate

-Cost to Generate Licenses

Hi gents!

Just to be sure I understand correctly :

With the "new" DRM system, do you confirm that there will no longer be "activation" limits? ... I mean ... you can install/uninstall/reinstall as much as you want, and having the modules of an unlimited number of computers ... just that you can launch the game only using your login once at a time?

Am I correct?

Regards.

if that were the case, might as well not use DRM at all and give every module away for free.

Geez...that's a little over dramatic. Nobody's suggesting that ED have no DRM and give every module away for free. Just something that's not so intrusive and might hamper the ability to play the modules they have purchased.

You can "feel" the hostility towards the customers concerned about their up to $800 investment in ED's products and their ability to play them with ED changing the DRM/terms.

I would guess the new DRM will be required for the Hornet for sure. It reminds me of EA's much awaited Battlefield 3 release...they required you to install and agree to their new Origin client to play the game.

Geez...that's a little over dramatic. Nobody's suggesting that ED have no DRM and give every module away for free. Just something that's not so intrusive and might hamper the ability to play the modules they have purchased.

 

You can "feel" the hostility towards the customers concerned about their up to $800 investment in ED's products and their ability to play them with ED changing the DRM/terms.

 

I would guess the new DRM will be required for the Hornet for sure. It reminds me of EA's much awaited Battlefield 3 release...they required you to install and agree to their new Origin client to play the game.

I am a customer as well, and I pay for every module I use.

The Point here is, DRM that is Account / Login Based, is preferable over DRM that is Hardware Profile Based, just look at polls on Steam's Forums about DRM.

Which is why no one has issues w/ SteamDRM, it's Login Based.

Login Based DRM will never have an Unlimited offline mode, as there's nothing stopping you from cloning drives and keeping a copy offline long after Sending your account to someone else to authorize, or gifting your content to someone else etc.

Hardware Profile Based DRM is more hassle than Login Based, just search the google machine, Titles that lock you out over unplugging a USB Stick or Webcam, or even Windows/Device Driver Updates, The Hassle you have to go through to Re-Activate after a Hardware Failure, etc etc. So many things can lock you out of Hardware Profile DRM, the only thing that can interfere with Account Login DRM is Internet Access.

Seriously though, I know people that dont Have internet, they download their DCS Updates and New Modules on a thumb drive at work and bring back to their home, they already found a way to allow their PCs and Laptops to login and Auth Check their AV-8B Module by sharing their phone's wifi w/ their laptop on the road or using a free dial up service at home.

Just to clarify a point Skate...Steam's login based DRM works pretty well, but they have an unlimited offline mode. I don't know if this creates a rampant piracy problem...I wouldn't think so or they would change it. This doesn't include any layers of Developer DRM on top.

I have had Steam in offline mode for months before. It was necessary as it wanted to update my IL-2 1946 past what the mods I had installed supported.

The Point here is, DRM that is Account / Login Based, is preferable over DRM that is Hardware Profile Based, just look at polls on Steam's Forums about DRM.

Skate,

Can you link me that poll you are referring to?

Since we are talking about Steam.

Today if one were to purchase ALL DCSW DLC available on Steam, the total would be $1,224.57 USD

Happy Simming,

Monnie

Skate,

 

Can you link me that poll you are referring to?

 

Since we are talking about Steam.

 

Today if one were to purchase ALL DCSW DLC available on Steam, the total would be $1,224.57 USD

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie

I dont have a direct link, but they publish Survey and Poll results all the time. Google.

Just to clarify a point Skate...Steam's login based DRM works pretty well, but they have an unlimited offline mode. I don't know if this creates a rampant piracy problem...I wouldn't think so or they would change it. This doesn't include any layers of Developer DRM on top.

 

I have had Steam in offline mode for months before. It was necessary as it wanted to update my IL-2 1946 past what the mods I had installed supported.

Steam's Offline Mode is NOT unlimited. But again, it's not the 2-Weeks that it was before. and Offline Mode Only works on titles that support it.

But Who's to say you cant just change the date on you're PC and keep going.

After reading this nightmare of a thread I don't think I will be purchasing any more modules if this is implemented.

Hi gents!

 

Just to be sure I understand correctly :

 

With the "new" DRM system, do you confirm that there will no longer be "activation" limits? ... I mean ... you can install/uninstall/reinstall as much as you want, and having the modules of an unlimited number of computers ... just that you can launch the game only using your login once at a time?

 

Am I correct?

 

Regards.

That's what it is for. The usage is tied to the user account, not to activation or hardware. You can install it everywhere you want but can only login on one machine at the same time (I think you will then automatically get logged out of the other machines). You can change your hardware or install modules as many times as you like, you will not loose your module. It's yours, forever (as long as you have access to your account).

So as long as you have internet access it's then (when they activate it for all modules) like in other games where you simply don't need to think about it.

So people for who internet access is no issue will benefit from this. As I'm part of this group, I like the new system.

Others, who have no access to internet for longer periods, more than the system allows (this is what the poll should determine), will have some trouble.

The Point here is, DRM that is Account / Login Based, is preferable over DRM that is Hardware Profile Based, just look at polls on Steam's Forums about DRM.

Skate,

 

Can you link me that poll you are referring to?

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie

 

I dont have a direct link, but they publish Survey and Poll results all the time. Google.

Skate,

If one is making a statement as irrefutable, one must back that up with data and details. If not, it becomes just an opinion.

Happy Simming,

Monnie

So is this really about the Phone Home, or about E.D.

It's about needing regularly internet connection to regularly ask ED if I'm still allowed to play the module I bought. And that it's in my and other users opinion a regression from the old drm system.

As a side note: The new drm system is still not mention in the e-shop page of the AV-8B. It still says: "requires internet activation." No mention of requiring regularly internet connection (instead of one-time connection for activation).

Steam's Offline Mode is NOT unlimited.

free url hosting

As a side note: The new drm system is still not mention in the e-shop page of the AV-8B. It still says: "requires internet activation." No mention of requiring regularly internet connection (instead of one-time connection for activation).

Still unshown on the Harrier AV-8B Night Attack S/VTOL Pre-sales Announcement.

DCS: AV-8B Night Attack S/VTOL Released!

Still unshown on the Harrier AV-8B Night Attack S/VTOL Product page in the e-shop Minimal System Requirements. Only mention of "requires internet activation."

DCS: AV-8B Night Attack V/STOL by RAZBAM

Still unshown in the change log of Update DCS 1.5.8.12162 nor Update 2017-12-01

DCS 1.5.8.12265 Hotfix 1.

Change log Update DCS 1.5.8.12162 and Update 2017-12-01

DCS 1.5.8.12265 Hotfix 1.

If A customer purchased, either pre-purchase or after the release, did not visit the forums, they would have no idea of the change in DRM when agreeing to the terms of sale.

Happy Simming,

Monnie

I, for one, am happy we're getting rid of starforce!

It doesn't bring us forward by just telling whether one dislikes or likes the system. We won't even get close to a correct opinion-overview over all customers based on that.

It already begins with that unsatisfied user tend more to post then satisfied ones.

What we need are actual arguments. Good arguments that speak for or against the system.

The majority of this thread, at least that is my impression, consists of meaningless arguments.

It doesn't bring us forward by just telling whether one dislikes or likes the system. We won't even get close to a correct opinion-overview over all customers based on that.

 

 

It already begins with that unsatisfied user tend more to post then satisfied ones.

 

 

What we need are actual arguments. Good arguments that speak for or against the system.

The majority of this thread, at least that is my impression, consists of meaningless arguments.

I don't consider concern from customers about being restricted to play the titles they payed for with a new DRM as "meaningless".

There is a lot of "noise" in the thread but there are some valid concerns as well.

Logged in this morning to check on this thread and found it has been moved from, "Eagle Dynamics New DRM Expiration Period Limit" to "AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE" and I'm curious why?

Seems to me since this thread has mentioned several times that ED plans to retroactively convert existing modules to this new DRM approach, that this thread should be titled in a way to reach as many current module owners as possible, not imply that it only affects those purchasing the AV-8B module :huh:

A plan to change the DRM approach for all module owners should invite all module owners to learn and comment :smilewink:

Firstly, Starforce does attempt to phone home every 31 days.

So the statement is correct, and you can stop insinuating that we lied to you about Starforce behavior.

 

The Difference between Starforce and ED's New DRM is Offline Behavior.

 

For Starforce, If it cannot connect, and the Machine Hardware Profile has not changed, then it proceeds offline as long as Hardware Profile doesnt change, or the developer didnt integrate a requirement to refresh, in which case Starforce Console would pop up w/ the Key Entered and ask to activate.

 

With Starforce, if Hardware Profile Changes and you're off line, you will not be able to activate the product, even the "offline" mode requires Internet access to enter Code Strings into a webpage to get a key to paste into the starforce console.

 

 

With ED's new DRM at the Moment, there should be a 72 hour Time out in offline mode.

 

Since this system is new, there might be bugs and quirks in how it operates (blocking module immediately on auth. fail),

as well as general user feed back changes (extending the time).

 

This is why we have Open Beta/Open Alpha Branches.

 

 

Also, As it was cross posted from the Russian Section, The New DRM allows ED to Assign Any ED Login Permission to access a module without the need to issue a key. Which would allow for things like:

 

-Press Preview/Review Access to Modules

-Free Trials of Modules

-Open Access / Free to Play Weekends for Modules.

-Easier Gifting / Transferring rights.

I live on a yacht and I use mobile wifi to play this game online. I also have purchased missions so I actually like to play offline with the many hundreds of dollars of modules I purchased with the knowledge I would be able to play both offline and online. could you please explain to me how I can play with all my stuff when I am cruising up the remote Queensland coast? I may be traveling out of wifi and phone coverage areas for weeks at a time, I may be stuck in an anchorage waiting for good weather or I may just be staying out for pleasure. please explain. thanks Huggy.

It doesn't bring us forward by just telling whether one dislikes or likes the system. We won't even get close to a correct opinion-overview over all customers based on that.

 

 

It already begins with that unsatisfied user tend more to post then satisfied ones.

 

 

What we need are actual arguments. Good arguments that speak for or against the system.

The majority of this thread, at least that is my impression, consists of meaningless arguments.

I generated this poll in which you voted.

Did you see my post here in this thread?

Conditions and Proposal

Happy Simming,

Monnie

I don't consider concern from customers about being restricted to play the titles they payed for with a new DRM as "meaningless".

It's just that the current DRM system (Starforce) also restricts customers from their bought modules. It's even forever and not only temporarily.

I mean it's just another group of people that is affected by the new DRM mechanic (the ones without internet) whereas the old system affects people that frequently change their hardware or for whatever other reasons need to re-install (I am very close to loosing two modules due to that).

I, as long as nobody shows me a representative survey, would consider both groups equally big (though I personally would tend to guess that no-internet-group is smaller).

So just based on that we could only say that the old system disadvantaged users and the new one also.

On the other hand it seems that ED wants some DRM mechanic. So no matter which system we use there will always be one group that gets disadvantaged. The goal would be to identify the smallest group, I'd say. But that's really hard. A poll is already good, the best we can do in a forum like this to get an overview.

Currently it reads that about half of the users tend to <= 30 days whereas the other half says >30 days.

I can't tell how many are against the system but I would guess that they would rather tend to pick 90 in the poll. So maybe it's near 50:50.

Logged in this morning to check on this thread and found it has been moved from, "Eagle Dynamics New DRM Expiration Period Limit" to "AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE" and I'm curious why?

The two threads were merged.

Logged in this morning to check on this thread and found it has been moved from, "Eagle Dynamics New DRM Expiration Period Limit" to "AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE" and I'm curious why?

 

Seems to me since this thread has mentioned several times that ED plans to retroactively convert existing modules to this new DRM approach, that this thread should be titled in a way to reach as many current module owners as possible, not imply that it only affects those purchasing the AV-8B module :huh:

 

A plan to change the DRM approach for all module owners should invite all module owners to learn and comment :smilewink:

I live on a yacht and I use mobile wifi to play this game online. I also have purchased missions so I actually like to play offline with the many hundreds of dollars of modules I purchased with the knowledge I would be able to play both offline and online. could you please explain to me how I can play with all my stuff when I am cruising up the remote Queensland coast? I may be traveling out of wifi and phone coverage areas for weeks at a time, I may be stuck in an anchorage waiting for good weather or I may just be staying out for pleasure. please explain. thanks Huggy.

Based on the last day's additions, it appears as though my ability to play offline when I want is going to be kneecappped so ED can turn my desktop into a marketplace. I've noticed it was heading in thus direction since the modules were listed along the bottom of the opening screen, but didn't suspect they'd force this on me. Might as well play on a console.

The two threads were merged.

I figured that. My point was why make a thread (and poll) that affects every DCS user to ever purchase a module appear under a title that seems to only affect those that purchased the AV-8B :smilewink: