Just wondering.....

So i have recently been liking more of DCS then the other sim we are not supposed to name, and even though I am enjoying it immensely, I dont know why the Germans have the K-4 but no other 109 variants. This may have been addressed before and I may have missed it but does anyone think there will be a chance to have a more historical line up with the current 51 vs 109G-6s or G10s or G14s??? Again not trying to start anything ....just wondering.....

As I recall, the original WWII project came from another design group; Normandy map, FW 190D, Bf 109K, Spitfire IX, P-47D, etc., and when they collapsed, DCS took over the project, and the map, the Dora and Kurfurst were closest to completion.

The Mustang pre-existed as a DCS original, and I get the impression that the model is based more on the existing real aircraft--and to some degree, the limitations placed on 70 year old warbirds. The Dora and Kurfurst are also based on existing warbirds (I think to a much lesser degree), but as idealized versions of the real thing--given that the real things were often very poorly assembled by captive foreign 'guest workers'; the existing aircraft were originally 'war booty' that was often modified to be safe to fly by the Allied air forces' standards and far closer to the design ideals as opposed to actual production norms along with being 'supplied' with decent fuel not available to them during wartime.

What it comes down to is we currently have what we have; I've heard no indications that we will see a version of the Bf 109 produced before August 1944, and we are fortunate to get a late Anton Fock-Wulf.

cheers

horseback

109g6 is confirmed, and was stated won’t be to long for it also.

Yep, plenty of times addressed subject by the way.

WARNING: grandpa Simpson alike story incoming :lol: .

The thing is as Horseback explains upwards the planeset and map were chosen by RRG which was the original developer (made by Luthier, a dev from CloD and older Il-2 titles indeed). ED just honoured a kickstarter they didn't see money from but people was left without a thing, so planed models couldn't and shouldn't be changed since those were the ones people pledged for in the first place. Initial idea was to create a separate WWII install supported by ED but developed by RRG which never happened.

P-51 and Fw190D are ED's developments (though RRG made plenty use of them in the kickstarter as if they were "theirs", that was a clue :music_whistling:) and a perfect match "performancewise", so the K4 to start with because a difficult historical date and the P-47 since there's no available data and it's been a headache for ED to find it, are the "problems" there (still we wait for the 262 which, ahem…), but they shouldn't been changed as said and K4 was already in development by the time Luthier faded from Earth's surface so even though ED had to almost start over with it (apparently so clumsy and poor was what they left behind) changing the already chosen and started module wasn't a choice.

Normandy map was chosen by RRG either, but you can be grateful ED took over the development since original planed Normandy map was ludicrously small, and cheap BTW from the few screens we saw back then.

Aside from that sad DCS:WWII start and raison d'etre, G10 wouldn't be any help, it's a later aircraft than K4 indeed (by enter service date) and not much worst with regards to performance, which doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see that kind of aircraft just it wouldn't be a solution to "planeset balance" many people claim. But Nick Grey himself said a time ago G-6 is planed in due time, so good enough. Anyway, as Nineline said a few days ago around here they still are under the burden of that RRG painful choice and start, even so many years later, so they do what they can to kind of fix the mess they had to take over. Fw190A, Mosquito, Channel map and many of the assets pack is a good proof of that, but there's still missing parts we all would like to see of course. But I believe they are slowly but surely coming.

S!

109g6 is confirmed, and was stated won’t be to long for it also.

Would like to see a Bf 109 F-4.

Bowie.

Would like to see a Bf 109 F-4.

+1 A possible 109 F Would be the only upside to going back to BOB for me which seems to be the plan unfortunately.

Would like to see a Bf 109 F-4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bowie.

Yeah screw the 109G6 its a terrible plane. Heavy and under powered for the time. A 109F4 would be way better, or a classy 109E4.

Would like to see a Bf 109 F-4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bowie.

+1

Would LOVE a 109-F-4.

Also:

F4F-4 Wildcat

F6F-5 Hellcat

P-38 Lightning

I'm not asking for much really..lol

A Bf-109F-4 would almost demand a Spit Mk V to compete against it, I would think, or we're back to carping about 'imbalance'.

With the current plane set, the appropriate aircraft would be either a 109G-5/6 or, to upgrade the Allied side, either a Spitfire Mk XIV or Tempest Mk V.

Or they could give the Mustang, Spit and P-47 the performance that came with the 150 octane fuel that was commonly used from the summer of 1944 onward.

cheers

horseback

I would buy at least two licenses of a late DCS:Bf 109-F4 and donate it here, because I think this would be a awesome module.

Fox

A Bf-109F-4 would almost demand a Spit Mk V to compete against it, I would think, or we're back to carping about 'imbalance'.

 

With the current plane set, the appropriate aircraft would be either a 109G-5/6 or, to upgrade the Allied side, either a Spitfire Mk XIV or Tempest Mk V.

 

Or they could give the Mustang, Spit and P-47 the performance that came with the 150 octane fuel that was commonly used from the summer of 1944 onward.

 

cheers

 

horseback

The F4 is better then the 109G6. The 109G6 will be even worse if balance is your concern.

As a life long 109 lover, G-6 is the only one I don't care for in the least, and wouldn't buy.

Give me an Emil, or F-4, or even G-2. Rumor has it, Battle of Britain is something that might be in the cards for future, so I'm looking forward to some early Spitfires, Hurricanes, and Emil(s).

I'm also glad we got the K-4, penultimate wartime 109, and done well in a sim for the first time :).

Finally, this discussion is really a dead horse that's been beaten multiple times over the years :P

As a life long 109 lover, G-6 is the only one I don't care for in the least, and wouldn't buy.

 

Give me an Emil, or F-4, or even G-2. Rumor has it, Battle of Britain is something that might be in the cards for future, so I'm looking forward to some early Spitfires, Hurricanes, and Emil(s).

 

I'm also glad we got the K-4, penultimate wartime 109, and done well in a sim for the first time :).

 

Finally, this discussion is really a dead horse that's been beaten multiple times over the years :P

I'm a life long 109 fan to. It's been my favorite plane for ever. My favorite variant is the E4 followed by the F4 and finally the K4.

Whilst I don't dispute your choices, is it really a good idea to introduce a new aircraft module so chronologically out of step with the existing modules and maps?

Let's get the '44/45 content fleshed out and making more sense before venturing into further realms of implausibility.

And don't get me wrong - I'd love to see an F-4 but released in close order with a Mk.V Spit or a Yak-1.

I've long embraced the fact that DCS isn't about coherent theaters or historical periods/conflicts, but is the best in doing individual aircraft and their characteristics. Thus, I prefer to get aircraft variants that I'm interested in, rather than the one that fits period that never gets well fleshed out anyway.

From where I stand, an Emil and Friedrich would be lovely to experience, and G-6 is the ugly duckling stepchild of the 109 family, and the one that compared worst with it's contemporaries (or even older ones at some characteristics).

So, I honestly don't care for a G-6 in the least. But looking forward to a Battle of Britain in DCS at somepoint, yes, with both its sides.

Looking at the rumor mill, both G-6 and Battle of Britain seem to be in plans anyway, but G-6 seems to be the much nearer term one.

Naaaah. After all this blethering, what we need is a Biffer F-4. Now, is there a context for it to fit in currently? Naaaah. But who gives a crap? We need it ANYWAY, because that's just the Biffer that's... the serious Biffer. Right?

"Finally, this discussion is really a dead horse that's been beaten multiple times over the years "

Yes, and the carcass is starting to smell a bit. Can someone please cart it away?

A Bf-109F-4 would almost demand a Spit Mk V to compete against it, I would think, or we're back to carping about 'imbalance'.

 

With the current plane set, the appropriate aircraft would be either a 109G-5/6 or, to upgrade the Allied side, either a Spitfire Mk XIV or Tempest Mk V.

 

Or they could give the Mustang, Spit and P-47 the performance that came with the 150 octane fuel that was commonly used from the summer of 1944 onward.

 

cheers

 

horseback

Depends...

The Spit Mk IX was fielded in the middle of '42.

The 109 F-4 was fielded in the middle of '41, and the G-1 the middle of '42.

Wasn't 'till Spring of '43 that the G-6 "Die Beule" began to show up.

Think an F-4 or G-1 would factor in nicely to the current DCS Warbird stable.

Bowie

Thank u horseback for ur response and I forming me......I like the 51 but try not to be to muchof a fanboy j just moved on here to dcs cause of the excellent job they have done with warbirds....VR, dm, etc and the fact that they continue to try and improve things from an historical view point.....other sims...iL something.......are not doing nearly as much as ed seems to be .....I agree that a 150 Oct ( option with a g6/14 would be the best bet to make this more of a historical...not balanced ...match up ....I'm not so much looking for balance but historical accuracy....that's just my opinion though...

Ohh and a Bob scenario would not include a 109 F-4..... They would be E-3's and E-4's.....still a great match up that I would love for ED to do, but I know they have alot on their plate.....also with all the hate for the g-6 ....it was the most produced 109 if I'm not mistaken.

I believe F-1s still fought in the battle of britain.

People "hate" the G-6 because it was the pinnacle of bloating weight and drag before any of the later modifications came along to increase engine power and offset this again.

But a G-6 without the option for MW50 doesn't really make sense for DCS anyway, since almost all the aircraft we have are late 44 models at least. But ED has a long history of doing things that don't make sense so who knows what will come.

The most prolifically produced 109 variant seems to be the one few people here want to fly, despite it’s actual historical context and importance.

The most prolifically produced 109 variant seems to be the one few people here want to fly, despite it’s actual historical context and importance.

Exactly, i would love to see Bf-109 G-6/U3 or G-14

basic version of G-6 pointless right now. Like DefaultFace said.

The most prolifically produced 109 variant seems to be the one few people here want to fly, despite it’s actual historical context and importance.

The people who want the 109G6 seem to be people that predominantly fly allied planes. I guess it's because they don't like how well the 109K4 performs compared to thier aircraft.

I think the current plane set is about as balanced as you can get and is historically accurate.150 octane for the P51D will make the 109K4 the only viable fighter on a side that only has two fighters(FW190 and 109). I think the FW190D is already not very good as is.

Trying to replace the 109K4 with the 109G6 will create an environment where german pilots will not be able to compete. Both the spitfire 9 and P51D will be at a huge advantage over the german aircraft.

If you want both balance and historical accuracy then the current plane set is good for 1945. If I was going to have another late war 109 it would be the 109G14. But it would have to have something the K4 doesnt have(the option to mount extra wing cannons for example).

An AI G6 is needed though.

I’m aware people always have and will gravitate to whatever aircraft they think is the best and will cry foul if they feel disadvantaged. In that regard nothing is new under the Sun since the days of Air Warrior on Genie. Public server life is just a small slice of the pie though. The 109G6 deserves development and if this news that it’s confirmed is true then I’m happy to hear it. It’ll be a welcome addition in my group and I’m sure others as well. K4 fans can still enjoy their K4s.