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[REPORTED]MIG 29S has huge bounce on landing

H-var

By H-var
in MiG-29 for DCS World

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Ducksen
Ducksen

All landing techniqe aside. There is a serious abnormal physics bug to the landing of the MIG29. I got a landing without the bounce. With highest possible load, and lightest possible wight. Good land

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BIGNEWY

BIGNEWY

Posted
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Posted (edited)
In the russian forums are several MiG-29 pilots critizising the DCS MiG-29 flight model.

 

They say it is very easy to land in real life.

 

It is very easy to criticise, unless it comes with data or evidence it isn't helpful.

 

as the title says we have reported this bounce issue to the team

 

thanks


Edited by BIGNEWY

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pepin1234

pepin1234

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Posted (edited)

Yes there are videos with good landing. As well you, me and whoever can replicate a well done landing. If you can do it well is not the point... the real deal is when you touchdown a little bit faster than 350km/h and you make the touchdown with a little bit higher vertical speed... or a little bit nose up... THEN HAPPEN!! The MiG-29 bounce straight up with nose up almost 20 meters.

 

Is not accepted... because they are closing the doors for the people don’t accomplish a narrow range or error they set for landing MiG-29 in a unrealistic manner.

 

When pilots experience that they will not like take the MiG-29 again because they gonna find this hard landing and they will get kill themself trying to land MiG-29. Obviously this gonna make MiG-29 useless for the majority of the players, mostly new ones.

 

I had a friend that he was a permanent MiG-29 pilot. After all the upgrades they did I have never seen again this guy in DCS. One time I contact him and he told me ED have downgrade everything for MiG-29 and is not anymore possible do it well. This is the history who experience success with MiG-29 years ago.... tell me what will say a new player when experience this bounce to the sky landing...?


Edited by pepin1234

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Yo-Yo

Yo-Yo

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Posted (edited)

 

 

 

 

There are only few things from the aircraft manual to land a MiG :

 

1. Approach speed and glide slope (310 starting the final and 280 kph at the end) and glide slope (50 m over a radio beacon).

2. Starting flare at 7-9 m over the surface at 280 kph.

3. Do not hesitate to pull the stick just before a touchdown maintaining touchdown nose attitude.

4. Gently pull throttle back to idle only after you are see that the plane is home and dry.


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Yo-Yo

Yo-Yo

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Yes there are videos with good landing. As well you, me and whoever can replicate a well done landing. If you can do it well is not the point... the real deal is when you touchdown a little bit faster than 350km/h and you make the touchdown with a little bit higher vertical speed... or a little bit nose up... THEN HAPPEN!! The MiG-29 bounce straight up with nose up almost 20 meters.

 

Is not accepted... because they are closing the doors for the people don’t accomplish a narrow range or error they set for landing MiG-29 in a unrealistic manner.

 

When pilots experience that they will not like take the MiG-29 again because they gonna find this hard landing and they will get kill themself trying to land MiG-29. Obviously this gonna make MiG-29 useless for the majority of the players, mostly new ones.

 

I had a friend that he was a permanent MiG-29 pilot. After all the upgrades they did I have never seen again this guy in DCS. One time I contact him and he told me ED have downgrade everything for MiG-29 and is not anymore possible do it well. This is the history who experience success with MiG-29 years ago.... tell me what will say a new player when experience this bounce to the sky landing...?

 

Higher speed than 350 kph??? As the directed touchdown speed is 260 kph? Nosewheel touchdown? Are you kidding? The cadet who tries to land MiG this way will be fired in seconds... even earlier he enters a hospital.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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pepin1234

pepin1234

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Posted

I have seen Mig-29 landing at more than 300km/h. Could be a hard touchdown but do you really think is for get a response of a big bounce as we getting right now. I mean if we bounce is ok, but we are talking about a high bounce that make you lost the total control. This is only my point.... the bounce is so high that we finish in a fatal lost.

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pepin1234

pepin1234

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Posted

I have seen hard touchdowns and never see a nose up bounce like that we get in DCS. I know what I am taking about.

 

2 days ago happen to me. I got a engine malfunction and yes I touchdown with a bit more than 300km/h I got a fatal lost with the comical bounce nose up all the way until I crashed. I know I was a little hurried up because my failure but also was not so crazy out of parameters.

 

I know how to land the MiG-29 but sometimes that happen and the very weird is that this only happen with MiG-29 more and more often.

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Yo-Yo

Yo-Yo

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I have seen Mig-29 landing at more than 300km/h. Could be a hard touchdown but do you really think is for get a response of a big bounce as we getting right now. I mean if we bounce is ok, but we are talking about a high bounce that make you lost the total control. This is only my point.... the bounce is so high that we finish in a fatal lost.

 

300 kph is not normal for the normal landing mass and flaps down, and would be considered as a possible accident reason. If someone attempt to land at this speed he must be very careful avoiding significant sink rate, because the plane has a lot of lift to bounce. And any nose wheel touch down is strictly prohibited because of two reasons - it leads to immediate nose-up AoA lift bounce, and the nose wheel is not designed for touchdown strikes.

 

 

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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pepin1234

pepin1234

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Posted

I don’t know boss. I land pretty sweet the MiG-21 and Su-27 and L-39 or MiG-19. The MiG-29 drive me crazy in landing. Is the most killer machine in landing. I didn’t open this thread to tell you the same killer bounce problems. I just telling you I experience the same. Too much bounce nose up too high, only with MiG-29.

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Yo-Yo

Yo-Yo

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don't know the weight, but you can observe gauges and HUD repeater beautifully here:

 

 

 

Yes, 260 (270...275 at HUD) at touchdown.


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Yo-Yo

Yo-Yo

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I don’t know boss. I land pretty sweet the MiG-21 and Su-27 and L-39 or MiG-19. The MiG-29 drive me crazy in landing. Is the most killer machine in landing. I didn’t open this thread to tell you the same killer bounce problems. I just telling you I experience the same. Too much bounce nose up too high, only with MiG-29.

 

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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draconus

draconus

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Posted
300 kph is not normal for the normal landing mass and flaps down, and would be considered as a possible accident reason. If someone attempt to land at this speed he must be very careful avoiding significant sink rate, because the plane has a lot of lift to bounce. And any nose wheel touch down is strictly prohibited because of two reasons - it leads to immediate nose-up AoA lift bounce, and the nose wheel is not designed for touchdown strikes.

 

 

 

We'd be fine with such jumps and be fine with damaged gear. But it's not what is happening to Mig-29 bad landings. Jumps are huge and gear do not break then. It's the only issue and point of this thread.

We all can land Fulcrum perfectly alright and it does land beautiful. But it's not of interest of this thread so please don't waste your time on proper landings here. Make a few bad ones instead :) It's not like we ask for proper simulation of upside down landings.

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Baz000

Baz000

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Posted (edited)

Yo-Yo, I show here real MiG-29 pilot landing with some other technique that what is prescribed in pilots operation manual see the resulting behavior of the plane when making contact with the ground, I never noticed him even raise the nose for the landing after making wings level.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4409121&postcount=43

 

Also, on his landing he deploys the drag chute at least the the same height if you take the vertical tails and extrapolate another vertical tail below the fuselage in relation with the ground so some considerable height above the ground prior to initial touchdown on gear.


Edited by Baz000
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Yo-Yo

Yo-Yo

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Yo-Yo, I show here real MiG-29 pilot landing with some other technique that what is prescribed in pilots operation manual see the resulting behavior of the plane when making contact with the ground, I never noticed him even raise the nose for the landing after making wings level.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4409121&postcount=43

 

Also, on his landing he deploys the drag chute at least the the same height if you take the vertical tails and extrapolate another vertical tail below the fuselage in relation with the ground so some considerable height above the ground prior to initial touchdown on gear.

 

Have you seen the video above?

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Baz000

Baz000

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Posted

yeah I did and I saw you are trying to replicate the same way Anatoliy lands but the deployment of the drag chute needs to occur higher off the ground based on the real video also with little to no flaring up of the nose

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Baz000

Baz000

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Posted

why should I stop it is a video of a real landing with the plane, it is hard to find such a video in the first place... I spent lots of my time to find it and it clearly does demonstrate the rugged landing gear of the plane and how well MiG designers did in the engineering of it

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Yo-Yo

Yo-Yo

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why should I stop it is a video of a real landing with the plane, it is hard to find such a video in the first place... I spent lots of my time to find it and it clearly does demonstrate the rugged landing gear of the plane and how well MiG designers did in the engineering of it

 

Of course, I can not replicate Kvochur's landing with 1% accuracy, because we do not know 2 things - landing weight and exact speed he deployed the parachute. And obviously I can not exactly replicate his control inputs. But the second landing in my video demonstrates the chute deployed higher than standard flaring altitude, and the plane landed to three points simultaneously without bouncing, so no "weird nose wheel", etc.

 

Please show the track or video or both, what seems weird to you.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Baz000

Baz000

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Posted

I have a track here where I landed and had a main wheel tire burst and I have no idea why

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yVtpplNR4YWpBmfnCzCza_MgYcwJ_2pO/view?usp=sharing

 

I will jump ingame and record a few more shorter tracks of just landings. I appreciate you cannot replicate 100% the landing Anatoliy does but my intention for pointing it out was to show the aircraft behavior, sucks we can’t know those parameters he used

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pepin1234

pepin1234

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Posted

But Yo-Yo the point is the death after not get into certain landing parameters. The persistent high bounce to the sky seem to me something exaggerated. There is not chance for broken tires or landing gear malfunctioning.

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Yo-Yo

Yo-Yo

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What do you mean "not get into certain landing parameters"?

I showed that even if you land with the speed even more than 330 kph that is MAXIMAL PERMITTED SPEED nothing happens.

I showed that even at three point touchdown nothing happens.

 

I think you do not consider the first suicidal video with 400 kph nose down ground strike as "landing not get into certain landing parameters"?


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Baz000

Baz000

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Posted (edited)

Here I just crashed in this track, it looks like also I have no friction on skidding down the runway after crashing when trying to land... I'm doing more attempts to try to narrow down the cause.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KE37LvyK_n4eB1_PRNSJHEvqaP5FNG-v/view?usp=sharing

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RnKGacQEgVbXl5NcNwBihVH_pecDLXne/view?usp=sharing


Edited by Baz000
more tracks
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