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DCS: F-14 Air to Air Refueling Tutorial


104th_Maverick

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Not to argue with that but you know we can't tell that from the video provided. Neither you could unless you do it in external view.

 

Wing sweep indicator is visible the whole time. No movement.

2:22 -> Flaps & Slats up

3:01 ongoing to 3:19 -> Flaps & Slats up

Don't know why anything should move overall. Change in speed is maybe around 5 kts over the whole refueling procedere...

 

If someone has problems with the cat AAR (no matter if Auto or 40°), I can offer to fly together for training purpose. Some things are easier when someone helps you...


Edited by viper2097

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Wing sweep indicator is visible the whole time. No movement.

Again, I don't know and neither you do. Video is constantly wobbling around (how can you fly like that?!). Flying at 15k ft and M0.55 is well within the moving Wing Sweep zone for CADC Auto.

http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#wing-sweep-system

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That wobbling is normal when you record it trough a VR headset.

 

I guess you still don't understand what I try to say.

It doesn't matter if the wings are at 20° or 22°. Or if the flaps are extended or not.

When you are doing AAR correct, you are changing speeds not more then 5, maximal 10kts. You won't notice any difference in wing sweep, even the computer would set it from 21° to 22°.

 

In my video, you can't see any movement of the wing sweep indicator. Also no movement on the flaps and slats indicator.

Show me a video of AAR, where it is done correct, where the wing sweep or flaps/slats are moving during the approach and taking fuel. That's impossible, because you are not changing the altitude and not really change speed.

 

If you feel more comfortable to refuel with 40°, keep doing it.

But its just not true that wing sweep, slats and flaps are causing problems when refueling in Auto.

Its with Auto as easy/hard as it is with 40° (in DCS). Just another flight profile / characteristic to learn.

In Auto, it just reacts more to wrong inputs on the throttle, thats what most people are misinterpreting as wing sweep, slats or flaps movement.

 

The key is to fly in formation, being perfectly trimmed and do it with patence and minor speed differences. Then it will also work flawless and without any stress in Auto mode. (My video proofs that, even while flying a circle pattern)

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I guess you still don't understand what I try to say.

Look, when I cite you, I reply to that exact part I am citing. No idea why you think I don't understand you. I only read what you write. And when you write

In my video, you can't see any movement of the wing sweep indicator. Also no movement on the flaps and slats indicator
I still argue that I cannot see such things in that video, because it's wobbling around (I would need some kind of software to stabilize the image and zoom in, with still a bit low of a res) and it doesn't show the flaps/slats indicators.

 

 

What I don't argue is that AAR in Auto is possible and take as much skill as learning AAR at 40 degrees sweep - it's only this config I learn first. I also don't argue that flight control surfaces in Auto don't move/extend significantly enough to make a change here. :thumbup:

 

btw: So the VR wobbling is not present in normal play?

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The VR headset tracks even the smallest movement of your head and the FOV is nearly double of that cropped in the video.

You won't recognize any kind of wobbling while playing.

 

BTW: In youtube, you can go frame by frame with the "," and "." key. If you do that on my video, especially on the written time codes in post nr 226, you'll see that the wing sweep indicator is always on the same spot, and that everytime you see the flaps and slats indicator, that those are also fully retracted.

 

My initial post with the video had only the intention to clean up the wrong thing about bomb mode and that it is not true that wingsweep, flaps and slats are makeing problems when refueling in auto.

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everytime you see the flaps and slats indicator, that those are also fully retracted

Yes, my bad, I meant the Control Surface Position Indicator for spoilers.

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In those range you are changeing the speed during approach and refueling, the wings are not moveing a single degree. Watch my video on the page before. Was done in Auto. No wing / slats / flaps movement.

 

Or could you provide a video of refueling where you can show that the wings and /or slats & flaps are moving? If you follow the rules (fly in formation, trim hands free, approach slow) that should not be a problem.

 

The change in lift is not due to the wings or slats or anything else moving. I tried to make clear this when I said, "Even without the latter (for e.g., by locking wings forward), locking wings in a sweep helps in that it buffers the change in lift for the change in speed"),

 

So, once again, for those at the back ....

 

Change of speed => change of lift.

 

That's the aerodynamics of the situation. Even with the wings/slats locked into a particular configuration. Wings on auto. Wings not on auto. Wings locked forward. Wings locked fully swept. Wings locked in bomb mode. Slats manual or auto. The above holds.

 

What changes across all of this is the relative quantities of the response, how much the lift changes for the corresponding change in speed.

 

For a a given change of speed, with wings swept the corresponding change in lift is much less than the with the wings LOCKED forward. This makes the whole business easier to manage, as compensatory corrections are much less.

 

Maybe a third time? So: NOT talking about auto. NOT talking about slats moving. NOT talking about wings changing sweep based on speed. Just talking about the relationship between lift and speed for wings fully forward vs back (whether 40 deg, 50 deg, 55 degs, or whatever). Wings swept back makes compensating for change of lift as you try and maintain the same relative distance easier.

 

I'm not sure how a video can help any more ...

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Sweep definitely helps me.

 

For two reasons:

 

(1) the higher AoA makes it easier to keep sight of the tanker

 

Regarding this issue, I found very useful readjust my seat, lowering it. I fly VR and somehow the cockpit frame made it difficult. I only do that for refuelling, so I adjust it while getting to the left side of the tanker, before refuelling. Observation position I think is called.

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  • 1 month later...
Regarding this issue, I found very useful readjust my seat, lowering it. I fly VR and somehow the cockpit frame made it difficult. I only do that for refuelling, so I adjust it while getting to the left side of the tanker, before refuelling. Observation position I think is called.

 

 

Same. Without lowering seat I can't see pylon.

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Regarding this issue, I found very useful readjust my seat, lowering it. I fly VR and somehow the cockpit frame made it difficult. I only do that for refuelling, so I adjust it while getting to the left side of the tanker, before refuelling. Observation position I think is called.

 

Same. Without lowering seat I can't see pylon.

 

HAH! this could really help me. Going to try.

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  • 1 month later...

It has been very rewarding learning how to refuel the F-14. So far I have been using the bomb wing sweep with full flaps approach. Looking forward to trying some of the other approaches. Once I am connected, I can typically keep it where it needs to be for the whole process. Been doing it in VR. Thanks for all the tips posted

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locking wings in a sweep helps in that it buffers the change in lift for the change in speed

Which is quite useful. And I use it as well as a tip which takes a few minutes to learn and makes the whole thing quite easy: once you stabilised yourself behind the tanker, ready for contact, only move the right throttle to refuel. It induces a bit of yaw but once you learned how to master it, AAR becomes a piece of cake with any twin engine fighter.

 

 

I have been using the bomb wing sweep with full flaps

Impossible, dude. Flaps only work with wings forward.

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Here is what finally helped me:

 

After couple of week of connecting and disconnecting I think I finally got this.

 

1. Perfect trim as everyone already emphasized. I use a slight left trim bias.

2. Bomb mode wing sweep.

3. +40 curve for my WarBRD with heavy springs without extension.

1-3 got me to the point of connecting / disconnecting.

4. -10 on left and right Warthog throttle axis. This made staying connected much easier.


Edited by roadczar
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  • 3 weeks later...
All SAS on.

 

Might be a dumb question, but how to turn SAS on? Am.going crazy trying to AAR... Managed to get the autorisation to connect message, but I go all over the place trying to connect... (am absolutely not relaxed, think it quite stressfull in fact, way more that traps...)

 

Thanks in advance!

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Might be a dumb question, but how to turn SAS on? Am.going crazy trying to AAR... Managed to get the autorisation to connect message, but I go all over the place trying to connect... (am absolutely not relaxed, think it quite stressfull in fact, way more that traps...)

 

Thanks in advance!

 

http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/cockpit.html#afcs-control-panel

Switches 1, 2 and 3.

 

Don't rush it. It takes time to practise steady hand micromovements and throttle feeling.

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Hi there,

 

 

Neewbie question here : I created a training mission with a c135mprs tanker doing an orbit at 23000ft 240kt on its last flightplan waypoint. For some reason, when I am behind the tanker I am constantly pushed to the right and I do not understand what's the reason for this. I know about wake turbulences and I think it is not that because I am not in the wake. I can not stabilized behind the tanker.

 

What is weird is that I did not have such problem before. Any idea what could cause this? Maybe it is the orbit waypoint cause the tanker to constantly veering (but seems wing level to me)? Are my tanker parameters of speed and altitude ok?

Also I would like to ask if I need to trim the induced drag caused by the probe on the yaw axis before refueling?

 

 

Thanks for help, best regards,

 

 

Pierre

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