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Old 01-14-2020, 01:11 PM   #7471
Teknetinium
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Originally Posted by Chizh View Post
Why not?
Low altitude, massive countermeasures, hard maneuvers.
Make AIM-120C and B do the same then!
Why not LOL.

Even if there were no sanctions I would as Sukhoi not give ED to model anything Russian, Way to BIAS! Like you know how good ER track compare to AIM-120B/C. The tracking of missiles is just a BIAS approach nothing else. Its sad ED. Everyone agree that ER-27 and ET tracking is broken!

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Old 01-14-2020, 02:16 PM   #7472
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Originally Posted by Chizh View Post
А такое есть в реале?
Чтобы радар реально переходил в ДНП и посылал сигналы коррекции без пуска ракеты?
На счет самолетов не знаю, а так еще во времена С-75 ЗРВшники таким баловались - всё точно так же как при боевом пуске, команды наведения передаются, вот только ракеты на самом деле в воздухе нет.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:59 PM   #7473
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А почему бы и нет? Такое разве не моделируется, например в качестве тренировочных пусков и манёвров?
Не знаю.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:01 PM   #7474
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Originally Posted by Velik View Post
Чтобы выделять сигналы радиокоррекции и распознавать пуск, надо иметь эти последовательности в базе СПО.
Конечно, нужно иметь сигнатуры этих сигналов в библиотеке угроз.
Сбором этой информации занимаются специальные службы и самолеты.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:13 PM   #7475
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Originally Posted by Teknetinium View Post
Make AIM-120C and B do the same then!
Why not LOL.
AIM-120 is next generation missile with digital DSP with special ECCM code.
R-27 is old analog missile without any digital technologies with very weak ECCM ability by modern requirements.

Quote:
Even if there were no sanctions I would as Sukhoi not give ED to model anything Russian, Way to BIAS! Like you know how good ER track compare to AIM-120B/C. The tracking of missiles is just a BIAS approach nothing else. Its sad ED. Everyone agree that ER-27 and ET tracking is broken!
Fluent phrases.
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:54 PM   #7476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chizh View Post
AIM-120 is next generation missile with digital DSP with special ECCM code.
R-27 is old analog missile without any digital technologies with very weak ECCM ability by modern requirements.


Fluent phrases.
Agree Chizh, but if ER-27 and ET did hit 30% in MP instead of in SP all would be good. ER-27 need slightly better countermeasure rejection since in MP missiles track much worse.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:20 PM   #7477
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Originally Posted by Chizh View Post
R-27 is old analog missile without any digital technologies with very weak ECCM ability by modern requirements.
Noone is asking for the R-27R/ER to be a completely notch proof and chaff resistant missile. But the current behaviour is really poor.

Take a look at this:



A plane with huge RCS is engaged. The targets aspect is 40° different than the shooters heading.
The target is engaged by the R-27ER, and the R-27ER goes for the second!! chaff as soon as it was deployed.

How is this possible?

The target flies faster than 756 km/h. With the 40° heading difference the targets radial closure speed compared to the ground is -480km/h.
When the chaff is deployed, it will rapidly slow down and present a stationary reflector. The missile will not see it, as it filters out all doppler returns that are outside of the targets doppler frequency. For the chaff to be within the same frequency band as the targets doppler return, the bandpass (bank?) in the missile would have to be so wide that it allows for both frequencies to pass. Even a 10 years old could create a bandpass that is narrow enough to only have the targets doppler return by reading 5 minutes in a book. But somehow ED seems to think that soviet/russian engineers are unable to do so?

For the chaff to work, the target should at least somewhat try to reduce its radial closure speed compared to the ground, so that the doppler returns of chaff and target fall within the same frequency bin. This is absolutely not the case in this example.

In this case the target can also not be hidden behind the chaff, as the missile is coming from the 40° offset.

R-27R/ER may not have a digital computer, but that does not mean that there is no sophisticated signal processing at all.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:27 AM   #7478
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Originally Posted by BlackPixxel View Post
Noone is asking for the R-27R/ER to be a completely notch proof and chaff resistant missile. But the current behaviour is really poor.
Russian technology is much worse than you can imagine.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:19 AM   #7479
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а я уже писал про 2 диполя,наверное подумали это шутка
Мне кажется тут о многом думают,что шутят.

Надо ED полетать в онлайне против фениксов.Мож реально почувствуют ничтожность всех 120 и эрок

Last edited by Kvasok; 01-15-2020 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:53 AM   #7480
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Make R-27 great again!
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