turbulence causing wings to rip off

This has been posted in other forums as happening to other aircraft, particularly the mirage. When trying to dogfight with wake turb turned on and flying through an aircrafts wake (even under low g load) has been causing the wings to rip off. Up till now I've mostly seen it in the mirage and had heard of it happening in the f16, tonight it happened to multiple people multiple times in a single session while flying the F18. In the past ED has said this is a problem with 3rd party module design but when its happening to their own modules you have to call BS. Wake turb is significantly too powerful and needs tweaking.

Another problem with Wake turbulence is when you start Night life mission of F-16. With all the aircraft taking off, Wake turbulence vibrates my plane even in ground when I'm cold starting. It cancels the INS alignment, so I have to restart alignment.

On that note Wake turbulence effects Aircraft on ground also. Is it realistic, I don't know.

 

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Another problem with Wake turbulence is when you start Night life mission of F-16. With all the aircraft taking off, Wake turbulence vibrates my plane even in ground when I'm cold starting. It cancels the INS alignment, so I have to restart alignment.

On that note Wake turbulence effects Aircraft on ground also. Is it realistic, I don't know.

 

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Cant remember the mission but there's one f16 mission starting at dawn where you cold start in the parking area pointed at the runway and as a group of f15's begin takeoff they will blow your plane completely over and destroy it before you can even finish startup.

I guess two of our guys were launching off the carrier on cats 1 and 2 the other night and the second aircrafts wings were ripped off on cat launch by the preceeding aircrafts wake.

Cant remember the mission but there's one f16 mission starting at dawn where you cold start in the parking area pointed at the runway and as a group of f15's begin takeoff they will blow your plane completely over and destroy it before you can even finish startup.

I'll upload track when I jump into DCS again today. It is F-16 Night life mission in Caucusus (it's not quick mission), where you have to bomb oil tanks. It is not violent like blowing up, but is surely vibrates my plane to interrupt INS alignment.

I'm sure it's not F-16 only, I'll try placing other airframes to see if tge issue persist.

 

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Hi

 

if you have a short track replay showing this please attach it, and if possible your dcs log

 

thank you

 

Can attach MP trackfile from last night possibly. Which logfile?

Hi

 

if you have a short track replay showing this please attach it, and if possible your dcs log

 

thank you

 

Track files is 28mb so I can't attach it here directly so I will link to an upload below.

 

 

Is video of one of 2 wing rips that happen in that track file.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VNyd09d8JbLIz9xOJZOZprpsmpx1KrjY/view?usp=sharing

 

Is a link to the track file.

The first rip is just after 13:33 and the second is after 13:37. When I tried to make a video though the second event doesnt show the visual effect. The aircraft just starts to lose control. When it happened live however I didnt know the wing was gone and couldnt figure out what was wrong till the others told me my wing was gone and I verified it visually when I looked over my shoulder. I was floundering around at the end w one wing until the mirage fired a missile and finished me off. The first event happens to callsign "Loot", and the second happens to callsign "Talon". Realizing now that every event in which I've seen a wing rip off in turb involves the mirage. It both loses its wings and rips off other aircrafts wings. I will also post this info in the Razbam subforum and also intend to make a track of the mission where the F16 is blown over in the parking area at mission start and post it later.

Another problem with Wake turbulence is when you start Night life mission of F-16. With all the aircraft taking off, Wake turbulence vibrates my plane even in ground when I'm cold starting. It cancels the INS alignment, so I have to restart alignment.

On that note Wake turbulence effects Aircraft on ground also. Is it realistic, I don't know.

 

Sent from my Redmi K20 Pro using Tapatalk

 

Wow! I wouldn’t expect it to cancel and INS alignment! My limited experiences with wake turbulence:

 

I was in a Cessna 182 waiting for an intersection departure just short of a runway when 2-F16s took off together. Both Vipers were in afterburner and when they went by the entire airframe of the 182 was vibrating. Not loud with the headsets on but you could feel the energy. They hadn’t rotated yet so no big vortices.

 

Also stood on foot at the edge of a runway, maybe 5 feet outside the edge lights when an MD-80 just began its flare to land. As it passed by about 30 feet above me, I could very clearly hear the vortices pass just overhead. Sounded likes whips swirling through the air. Did not feel anything, but you could hear them trailing the jet.

 

I’ve also flown on a departure and our flight path went through Boeing 757 wake @ about 11,000 feet (when it shouldn’t be anywhere near as bad as when landing). I was flying a 50,000# jet and it rolled us to a nearly instantaneous 70 degree bank angle.

 

Landing above and behind a 747, I think I’ve seen the wake of a 747 hit the water, but I have a powerful imagination so who knows?

 

If an F-16 can cause your INS to not align I hope your not operating from the same fields as C5-Ms :pilotfly:

 

Not me, but a friend was flying in a plane shooting photo or video of another smaller aircraft which flew into the larger lead’s wake. It rolled the smaller plane completely over and the subsequent loss of control ended up causing the two aircraft to have a midair collision. Fatal for the smaller plane. The bigger was able to land.

Wow! I wouldn’t expect it to cancel and INS alignment! My limited experiences with wake turbulence:

 

 

 

I was in a Cessna 182 waiting for an intersection departure just short of a runway when 2-F16s took off together. Both Vipers were in afterburner and when they went by the entire airframe of the 182 was vibrating. Not loud with the headsets on but you could feel the energy. They hadn’t rotated yet so no big vortices.

 

 

 

Also stood on foot at the edge of a runway, maybe 5 feet outside the edge lights when an MD-80 just began its flare to land. As it passed by about 30 feet above me, I could very clearly hear the vortices pass just overhead. Sounded likes whips swirling through the air. Did not feel anything, but you could hear them trailing the jet.

 

 

 

I’ve also flown on a departure and our flight path went through Boeing 757 wake @ about 11,000 feet (when it shouldn’t be anywhere near as bad as when landing). I was flying a 50,000# jet and it rolled us to a nearly instantaneous 70 degree bank angle.

 

 

 

Landing above and behind a 747, I think I’ve seen the wake of a 747 hit the water, but I have a powerful imagination so who knows?

 

 

 

If an F-16 can cause your INS to not align I hope your not operating from the same fields as C5-Ms :pilotfly:

 

 

 

Not me, but a friend was flying in a plane shooting photo or video of another smaller aircraft which flew into the larger lead’s wake. It rolled the smaller plane completely over and the subsequent loss of control ended up causing the two aircraft to have a midair collision. Fatal for the smaller plane. The bigger was able to land.

Hello Friend,

I am not a real life pilot or anything. But from my understanding Wale turbulence shouldn't cause violent vibration in F-16 or any other fighter to cancel the ins because the plane moved an inch from it's spot(mind you it is on the ground). I have posted track file to BN in discord. I'll upload a video to show the problem, since I can't upload track file of 5mb or above.

If you have F-16, you can go to Night life mission(not quick mission). You'll start cold and some F-15s and F-16s will take off. The runway is kutaisi airfield. From runway to me is a fair distance. Just when the F-15s rotate, you'll here growl and vibration. If you are doing an INS align, it'll stop because system thinks you have moved.

 

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Wow! I wouldn’t expect it to cancel and INS alignment! My limited experiences with wake turbulence:

 

I was in a Cessna 182 waiting for an intersection departure just short of a runway when 2-F16s took off together. Both Vipers were in afterburner and when they went by the entire airframe of the 182 was vibrating. Not loud with the headsets on but you could feel the energy. They hadn’t rotated yet so no big vortices.

 

Also stood on foot at the edge of a runway, maybe 5 feet outside the edge lights when an MD-80 just began its flare to land. As it passed by about 30 feet above me, I could very clearly hear the vortices pass just overhead. Sounded likes whips swirling through the air. Did not feel anything, but you could hear them trailing the jet.

 

I’ve also flown on a departure and our flight path went through Boeing 757 wake @ about 11,000 feet (when it shouldn’t be anywhere near as bad as when landing). I was flying a 50,000# jet and it rolled us to a nearly instantaneous 70 degree bank angle.

 

Landing above and behind a 747, I think I’ve seen the wake of a 747 hit the water, but I have a powerful imagination so who knows?

 

If an F-16 can cause your INS to not align I hope your not operating from the same fields as C5-Ms :pilotfly:

 

Not me, but a friend was flying in a plane shooting photo or video of another smaller aircraft which flew into the larger lead’s wake. It rolled the smaller plane completely over and the subsequent loss of control ended up causing the two aircraft to have a midair collision. Fatal for the smaller plane. The bigger was able to land.

 

Had similar horrifying experience 23 years ago when I was at Embry Riddle in AZ doing my first solo in a 182N. An F16 from luke came up to practice touch and goes and ATC turned me too soon to final after he landed and the plane pitched hard up and to the left and I thought I was going to die. The plane totally recovered on its own since I was unsure of what to do. They always let those guys just come straight in to land and push other traffic downwind. They do not train you for this in basic flight.lol Ya they messed up and I had to go around with my instructor on the radio trying to help me out. So a pretty awesome first solo. The least the Viper pilot could have done was offer me a ride as consolation.:D

Sadly I cannot use the track as it has user mods. Not to worry I am still looking at this.

 

Thanks

 

I believe the only mod should have been maybe the range targets mod that was being used by the server. Dont believe I had anything else loaded. Wasnt aware that could effect track files. Would a tacview acmi be of any help?

If INS is truly modelled accurately, then severe vibrations could very well hinder alignment.

The INS is an extremely sensitive piece of equipment. It is able to feel if you accelerate from 250 knots to 251 for example, feel all the various speed and direction changes in a combat scenario, and STILL come up with a new position.

 

During an INS alignment, the aircraft must not move at all, I’m pretty sure there are flight line limits for wind on a stationary aircraft that hinder a fully accurate alignment.

On board a carrier, you tie in to the carriers positioning as the aircraft cannot do it alone, due to the movement (vertical, lateral, and motion) of the vessel. And as such, in that case the accuracy is degraded a small amount, yet still perfectly serviceable, and positional fixes can be gained enroute to update the INS.

 

As for the wing rips - sure does look like it needs tweaking, however they CAN be powerfull enough (IRL) to cause airframe damage in flight, but ripping off a wing would take an extraordinary combination of factors and sheer bad luck.

I'll upload track when I jump into DCS again today. It is F-16 Night life mission in Caucusus (it's not quick mission), where you have to bomb oil tanks. It is not violent like blowing up, but is surely vibrates my plane to interrupt INS alignment.

I'm sure it's not F-16 only, I'll try placing other airframes to see if tge issue persist.

 

Sent from my Redmi K20 Pro using Tapatalk

 

Can confirm that this is the mission that used to flip my aircraft over. Guessing something with mission or model has changed since the viper first released. It no longer flips the aircraft over but it still causes enough vibration to upset INS alignment. If I recall I think the F15's originally taxied from past the player starting point and crossed in front of your aircraft causing the destruction. Now it has been changed so the Eagles startup and taxi on the other side closer to the on ramp to the runway. The turbulence is still so strong though that as each plane takes off 100 meters or so in front of and perpendicular to you, that a few seconds after they pass by the wave of turbulence hits you and unsettles the aircraft.

i can confirm this, in F18 my wings keep getting ripped off if i fly in a wake of another plane.

i'm usually dogflighting, so distance is somewhere around 4000 feet and pulling around 7G.

i can confirm this, in F18 my wings keep getting ripped off if i fly in a wake of another plane.

i'm usually dogflighting, so distance is somewhere around 4000 feet and pulling around 7G.

 

Have you noticed this before the latest quick fix?

I flew through the wake quite a few times (before the last update) and got a little jolt, nothing to throw me off the attack.

In most cases I was between 320 and 450 knots.

Have you noticed this before the latest quick fix?

I flew through the wake quite a few times (before the last update) and got a little jolt, nothing to throw me off the attack.

In most cases I was between 320 and 450 knots.

 

Sometimes it is just a jolt. Its maybe 1 out of 10 times the damage occurs. My personal theory is that the turbulence isnt dissapating and is becoming additive as it crosses over itself. It seems to occur more the longer a fight occurs in a given area. I've lost wings in a 7 g turn and I've lost them in a 2 g turn.

Any unofficial mod will prevent me from playing the track replay unless I have the mod installed.

Obviously we have to test without user mods.

 

If anyone has a short track showing this please attach it.

 

thank you

 

I havent seen it happen against npc's buy will give it a test. If it doesnt happen against them the it'll be a little more trouble to setup a mp matchup on a server with zero mods.