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Old 01-11-2019, 11:56 AM   #1
Pikey
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Default SA page design/concerns

Whilst the majority of single players for the Hornet module will appreciate a virtual AWACS classifying contacts as hostile or friendly, the multiplayer audience is looking much deeper into this.


I/we have some concerns on the design for classifications (upgrading) contacts to hostile/friendly etc.



So far, the FC3 "coalition" has been predominantly deciding contacts in a simplified manner and that is the core game design and AI needs that. A part of Datalink is that the classification isn't automatic and that members contribute to the classification.


In the more (in depth?) MP communities, we use external tools and human controllers to cover those factors of IFF, using Squawks and human classification such as "guilty by association", i.e. we don't have any automatic classification going on, it's very much part of the "game" and an exciting immersion.



I think we would all appreciate that continuum, and herein lies the issue.

In Public Multiplayer, if designation of a contact is freely allowed, it would provide a way to poison the Datalinked picture. I think these groups would strongly appreciate something automated rather than have player classification, for obvious reasons.


However in organised private multiplayer, we wouldn't like the gamed automatic version of classification via DCS coalition, else the Hornet drivers (and future Datalink contributors) would know more than the dedicated Weapons Directors who might be using LotATC or other tools and be a non datalink contributor. Thus it would pretty much ruin their job having to ask the Hornet who has the contact what the IFF result is on their own SA page.


Thus could I humbly suggest a simple tickbox for the core game that chooses either to pre-designate contacts as hostile or allows all contributors to freely change the designation? This could be in the form of;

Prefer AI to classify contacts as hostile

Allow Players to override contact designation


There could be other design methods, such as a tick box per aircraft that prevents DL contribution, but I'm simply asking that Players can contribute to the Datalink rather than a "magical" classification based on coalition, which would be a bit of a disaster for those squadrons who already include a player whose job it is to handle declarations, labelling, classification and such, on a radar tool external to DCS.



Thank you for considering this. Obviously you already have, but we don't hear about such things.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:19 PM   #2
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Do we even know how the contacts on the SA page are getting classified? You say they get classified through DL by AWACS, but how do you know that? What if there is no AWACS on the map?

In general I'm all with you. I don't want some kind of automation that is close to being magic either. It would take a lot of the fun away, as you explained, but before making any judgement I would like to know how this will actually work.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:41 PM   #3
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I'm assuming this in reference to the Facebook screenshot of the new SA page that ED put up, could the colour of the contacts being red just mean that these are shared contacts from another radar as apose to them being classified red as emeny.

That being said good point Piky it would be nice to have that as an option assuming it functions in that way.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGon View Post
Do we even know how the contacts on the SA page are getting classified? You say they get classified through DL by AWACS, but how do you know that? What if there is no AWACS on the map?

In general I'm all with you. I don't want some kind of automation that is close to being magic either. It would take a lot of the fun away, as you explained, but before making any judgement I would like to know how this will actually work.
If you look at the Left MFD of screenshot of Wags you will see that there are 3 buttons : unknown friendly and foe. It appears that the pilot can also do the classification by himself.

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Old 01-11-2019, 12:43 PM   #5
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If you look at the Left MFD of screenshot of Wags you will see that there are 3 buttons : unknown friendly and foe. It appears that the pilot can also do the classification by himself.

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That would be nice. It might also just be a filter though
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:44 PM   #6
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That would be nice. It might also just be a filter
Possibly, but i read somewhere that the classification can be done, this could be the way of doing. Notice also the cursor on SA page.

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Old 01-11-2019, 12:49 PM   #7
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Possibly, but i read somewhere that the classification can be done, this could be the way of doing. Notice also the cursor on SA page.

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Alright, the question would still remain though how DCS handles classification.
Will it (only) be up to the pilot to designate contacts?
Will it work automatically with DL?
Will it work automatically with IFF?
...?
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:03 PM   #8
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I wonder if the NCTR system would come into play with classifying contacts that are not using IFF equipment? Maybe this might be part of "auto classifying targets"
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:07 PM   #9
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I wonder if the NCTR system would come into play with classifying contacts that are not using IFF equipment? Maybe this might be part of "auto classifying targets"
Good point! I totally forgot about it.

So there are a lot of possibilities. The question is how DCS handles them.
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:19 PM   #10
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I don't think NCTR by itself would mark a target as friend/foe, NCTR attempts to identify what type of aircraft it is, since there are aircraft that are flown by both sides in some conflicts you would not be able to positively ID a contact as enemy based on what type of aircraft. However the pilot using his judgement could manually mark a contact based on what type of aircraft NCTR showed.
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