Drag with Flaps extended.

Somehow since the last patch the drag coefficient of the flaps seems way to high.

30° nose down, flaps fully extended, with full burner you never even get close to 300kts.

something seems and feels wrong in that direction.

For Example a Dash8-402 with full flaps and full power will bust the flap speed limit and thats in straight level flight.

The F14 doesnt while having a way better thrust to weight ratio....

Results from the high drag:

Airspeed pickup is really low while transitioning from flaps extended to up.

Sometimes your in a tight turn, release pressure from the stick and it literally takes a century to pick up speed.

Interesting fact:

Prior Patch 272kts wings extended, flaps down you could outturn an F16.

Now: 252kts are required and the slightest touch to the stick result in a massive drop in speed and stall...

Prior Patch the F14 busted the flap speed limit resulting in stuck flaps..

Now: Never had any stuck flap situation.

just my 2 cents....

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4367816&postcount=20

Adjusted flap drag while overspeeding with full flaps deployed.

Maybe they made it this way so that new users won't break the flaps so easily anymore?

Maybe they made it this way so that new users won't break the flaps so easily anymore?

I hope the only reason to change something on the FM is to make it more true to life. HB has said as much before.

Special thanks for draconus..... Pointing to the Patch notes doesnt solve the issue.

The drag values which are currently in place seem way off from an aerodynamic point of view. At the end its suppose to be a Simulation and not Ace Combat. If a Pilot does not check his speed with flaps extended, than its his problem how to solve them beeing stucked or ripped of the wing. But not even able to get in a situation like this with the f14 seems unrealistic.

Special thanks for draconus..... Pointing to the Patch notes doesnt solve the issue.

It wasn't meant as a solution. You just sounded like you had no idea where it came from and why.

HB have discussed this multiple times. The flap changes are realistic

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4345307&postcount=20

I hope the only reason to change something on the FM is to make it more true to life. HB has said as much before.

The drag values which are currently in place seem way off from an aerodynamic point of view. At the end its suppose to be a Simulation and not Ace Combat. If a Pilot does not check his speed with flaps extended, than its his problem how to solve them beeing stucked or ripped of the wing. But not even able to get in a situation like this with the f14 seems unrealistic.

I haven't really flown with flaps down faster then 280 even before the change, so i can't tell what were they like before. But if what OP says it's true, and now you can't physically over speed the flaps, because the there just isn't enough thrust to overcome the drag, then ..... well...... the entire warning about over speeding, just doesn't make any sense. :huh:

... But if what OP says it's true, and now you can't physically over speed the flaps, because the there just isn't enough thrust to overcome the drag, then ..... well...... the entire warning about over speeding, just doesn't make any sense...

I agree, it seems weird not to be able to get to and past 300kias with engines thrust of 60400lbf just because flaps are down. That much thrust should have power to "rip the flaps off the airplane" so to speak, from my point of view at least.

Im of course armchair pilot only so no experience on that and Im also sure that no pilot ever did this IRL even just for test so probably no data points on that but it just feels wrong somehow.

Full burner in a dive, aux flaps down with only 2000lbs of fuel on-board and not accelerating past 290kts ... More a drag chute than flaps now, nice :(

Vfe is 225KIAS.....

If you want absolute realism the question you should be asking is whether they have enough control of the damage model to start bending/shearing them off at 280 KIAS+

What are you even doing breaking your flaps in a dogfight... that F-16 will thank you very much for the fact you just handed him the fight, no longer being able to accelerate or challenge in the vertical. "Outstanding move!"

The flaps are WIP, I'm working to make them easier to jam when severe overspeeding happens with full flaps deployed. The truth is that we don't have much data on the flaps when fully deployed at speeds far above the 225 KIAS deploy limit. The flaps on the cat are very large and accordingly will contribute significantly to drag at high speeds. I will likely tweak the drag again once I've made them easier to jam. The primary driver behind this is a large number of people using full flaps to gain an unrealistic advantage in BFM in a way that they would not be used in real life. This comment summarizes things nicely:

https://old.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/gwmihq/so_just_curious_would_a_thick_f14_boi_with_flaps/fswjof3/

In an effort to make things as realistic as possible, we must also eliminate "gamey" exploits such as this and do it in a way that is as consistent with reality as possible. Dropping full flaps at 300+ KIAS to turn inside an opponent should and will have consequences.

But what does that have to do with magical you can't go faster than the Vfe when the flaps are down? Nose down on burner the plane should happily rip its flaps off.

But what does that have to do with magical you can't go faster than the Vfe when the flaps are down? Nose down on burner the plane should happily rip its flaps off.

You can go much faster than Vfe right now with flaps extended, but problem is they do not jam early enough, it is WIP.

I'm not sure if it's related but I've noticed a difference when landing. Need 1 or 2 degrees more nose up trim and engines seem less responsive than they were.

I'm using latest stable.

Agreed, if they are supposed to jam, then let them jam. If they are supposed to fall apart, then fall apart. But if this new implementation leads to wonky flight behavior, just so people would not abuse them...... i mean, is it really worth it? It's like implementing some fictional feature to prevent people taking off from taxiways and parking lots on open servers. Yeah, it annoys the living daylights out of me, but that's open servers for you. If you don't like it, don't visit them?

EDIT: Just confirmed what the OP said. 285 KIAS wall in a dive, 270 KIAS wall in level flight.

It is WIP, flap jamming and drag is being worked on.

I'm not sure if it's related but I've noticed a difference when landing. Need 1 or 2 degrees more nose up trim and engines seem less responsive than they were.

I'm using latest stable.

Compared to what? The flaps changes we talk about did not make it to the stable yet.

"Adjusted flap lift and drag at speeds above deploy speed limit"

What's this then from latest stable?

"Adjusted flap lift and drag at speeds above deploy speed limit"

What's this then from latest stable?

That's earlier stage of the bigger changes that are still WIP.

Hi All,

Posted this already in this threat,https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=274175&page=3

But for some different viewpoint checkout this video and look up @38min and 05 sec!

https://airandspace.si.edu/events/vice-adm-donald-d-engen-flight-jacket-night-2

to bring some balance to this discussion!

Just my opinion, I know it is WIP but the drag penalty with full flaps is now more unrealistic than before. It solved a debatable cheat with a harsh unrealistic penalty.

Regards,

Erikki

I see the entire discussion as a professional Pilot, not fighters but commercial airliners.

And the entire drag discussion is about enhancing the product we have got at our hands.

HB has done an outstanding job with the F14 and I am positive that we all agree on that, but if there are certain bugs or problems that are too obvious to be ignored I think they have to be named straight forward.

such obvious things should be mentioned by some QA ppl who try out the builds before they get into any update cycle preventing us users from fiddling around whats wrong.

Typical Pilot phrase when something is not working as intended:

Mhhhh strange she has never done that before.....

A good thing is that HB is working on the Flap - Drag Issue.

But the Drag currently produced by the flaps, produces even more problems for the entire flightdynamics. Stallspeed increase with increasing bank. Stall recovery takes longer due to higher drag. Changing one value like drag influences the entire feel.

I am not sure how deep HB is able to gather data on the drag produced by the flaps.

But in general they should know the Vfe, Max speed for Flaps extended.

Going beyond that speed might cause damage to the flaps.

Ofc there are other factors contributing to flap damage/jam such as g-load.

what I hope is that they dont use Vfe as strikt line. going beyond Vfe and the flaps jam instantly. that would be totally unrealistic as well.

Lets hope they get this sorted out better sooner than later so we all can enjoy the Cat even more.

And apart from the criticism, for me the F-14 is still the best Product for DCS.

The redesigned flap jamming and drag model will be in the next patch, it will give you plenty of buffer over Vfe before things start to break, but I'm sure it will catch a lot of people off guard who like to abuse the flaps.

And apart from the criticism, for me the F-14 is still the best Product for DCS.

:thumbup:no discussion on that!!!