Weapon Release brevity code words. Let's talk!

Nukes have their own special terminology, if things are going nuclear, none of your conventional stuff applies. Again its also the kind of thing that the ENTIRE force would know is happening because you dont just willy nilly nukes, so it could be as simple as at time XX:XX nuke impacts will occur, in these areas or those. And thats it, no radio calls, nothing just everybody knows at time XX:XX this will happen, unless something goes wrong.

 

please keep in mind that all brevity and how its used is designed with a larger force in mind with dozens possibly hundreds of individual speakers and listeners on the same radio frequency, there will be planning involved, not willy nilly Ima go here and drop my bombs left and right like what happens in a flight sim. In a big air war of that sort, Your bombs away call will:

1)not get heard

2)the people who hear it will not care

3)will take up valuable time that somebody else could be saying something more important.

 

So again, how does your saying "pickle" over the radio in a DCS multiplayer environment tell anyone else ANYTHING that might change what they are doing?

Edited January 17, 2020 by KlarSnow

I call it when there are friendly helo's or ground forces in the AO (CAS style engagements) - otherwise I just keep my mouth shut when releasing A/G bombs. Period.

 

Thank you for your service, sacrifice and commitment - to those here who have served (and contributing knowledge to this community).

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

I looked around and found MUSHROOM for delivery/detonation and BEWARE for 30 seconds before release or for alerting others to a possible enemy nuke.

I guess if a nuke is about to go off, you don't really care if it's "friendly" or not. Even if you're well outside the blast radius, with the amount of high energy neutrons and gammas that's instantly released, you want to be as far away as humanly possible.

 

There’s a lot of real-world weapon effects when we start talking nukes that most don’t even consider. Nuke blasts and clear canopies don’t mix very well. You’re better off being far enough away that you never hear those calls unless it’s over SATCOM.

the way to think about nukes if they are being employed is that IF its time for that to happen, they are all that the show is about. Everything will be supporting and revolving around that drop.

 

the situation where there's a general war going on and then oh hey guys in 2 minutes I'm gonna just drop this nuke over here... doesn't happen.

Edited January 17, 2020 by KlarSnow

There’s a lot of real-world weapon effects when we start talking nukes that most don’t even consider. Nuke blasts and clear canopies don’t mix very well. You’re better off being far enough away that you never hear those calls unless it’s over SATCOM.

You got the right idea. Unfortunately though, nuke blasts and coated canopies don't mix well either. A gold tinted canopy might help against solar radiation and is perhaps effective against typical radar frequencies, but these are in the 10^9 Hz range. It won't do much against the gamma ray burst of a nuclear blast. Gammas are in the 10^20 Hz range, thus their wavelength is extremely small and they are extremely penetrative. And the neutrons are another story, they'll interact with everything and produce secondary radiation.

 

Gammas predominantly interact with heavy elements. Both gammas and neutrons require a lot of material to attenuate, much more than a coat of gold. And all that stands between the pilot, the aircraft's electronics and those gamma rays is mostly air. If he's close enough, the pilot will certainly get a dose and there's a chance of electronics failing, since the gammas and the neutrons will do a number on the jet itself.

 

From my lab days, I remember that you'd need around 1cm of Lead to absorb 40-50% of the incoming gammas at typical energies. You need a lot of water or a dense, hydrogen-rich material to shield against neutrons. Where I work, the guys that handle spent reactor fuel for testing do so behind 0.5 meter thick lead glass (spent fuel emits gammas but not neutrons).

 

All that to say that I agree with you and then some. No one should ever want to be even in the same MGRS grid zone as a nuclear explosion, especially a fusion one.

the situation where there's a general war going on and then oh hey guys in 2 minutes I'm gonna just drop this nuke over here... doesn't happen.

Correct, but wait until DCS gets nukes, it's going to happen all the time :lol:

 

All that to say that I agree with you and then some. No one should ever want to be even in the same MGRS grid zone as a nuclear explosion, especially a fusion one.

DCS has nukes. The mig21 can carry two types

 

And of course none wants to be near a nuclear explosion but most professions in the military don't really allow you to choose where you are. For me, an ISR guy, that is likely ahead of the FLOT. Even though a nuclear attack is unlikely, as soon as someone starts smaller tactical warheads might very well get handed out like candy. If that makes a difference at that point anyway

 

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DCS has nukes. The mig21 can carry two types

 

And of course none wants to be near a nuclear explosion but most professions in the military don't really allow you to choose where you are. For me, an ISR guy, that is likely ahead of the FLOT. Even though a nuclear attack is unlikely, as soon as someone starts smaller tactical warheads might very well get handed out like candy. If that makes a difference at that point anyway

 

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Of course, but the ideal scenario is that you'll be very far away. Real life situations might complicate that, sure. I'm just saying that being in an environment that nuclear explosions happen, even if you're clear of the blast (obviously), is very bad, for a lot of reasons. There are tactical considerations that go beyond the initial explosion.

And the Mig-21 has two bombs with a high explosive power value in their lua file, labeled as nukes. Even the visual effect isn't there. I'm not saying that DCS should simulate nuclear blast effects, but I am saying that since it doesn't, we don't have nukes.

Yes it is.

Sigh

the way to think about nukes if they are being employed is that IF its time for that to happen, they are all that the show is about. Everything will be supporting and revolving around that drop.

 

the situation where there's a general war going on and then oh hey guys in 2 minutes I'm gonna just drop this nuke over here... doesn't happen.

 

Yep

Nope, still not correct. Pickle is still not a normal Brevity word or call used on the radio. Pickle doesn't really tell anyone anything useful. It just means you Pressed the weapons release button. Did the bombs come off the jet? Maybe not - maybe they were hung or you just forgot to turn on the master arm.

 

A more correct call (though usually still not required anyway) would be an "OFF" call with a status. OFF HOT means the bombs came off when you pickled. OFF DRY means you either aborted the pass or nothing happened when you mashed the button.

 

In a normal interdiction event - the OFF HOT call is rarely needed and doesn't add SA to anyone. If the attack went as planned and you pickled on your correct target and the bombs came off as expected, silence is golden. If you went DRY on the attack for whatever reason, in that case I would certainly tell my flight lead or wingman so the decision can be made as to whether to re-attack or not.

 

About the only other time you would make an OFF HOT call is either on a controlled bombing range or if doing Type 1 or 2 CAS and you want to let the JTAC know there is a bomb on the way. Another typical scenario to make a weapons release call is if you're the bomb mule in a buddy lase event. In that case - typically you would say to the person lasing the bomb "OFF HOT, 30 secs" (time to impact) so they know to get the laser on at the right time if doing a delay lase. Even if doing a continuous lase, the 'OFF HOT' call is still a head's up to get the F'ing laser on if they forgot to turn it on prior to release.

 

The #1 rule to tactical communications that you always should ask yourself before you key the mic switch is: "Does this call add SA to someone, is it needed or required?" If none of the above, then all you're doing is garbaging up an already busy net just to hear yourself speak. When in doubt, stop talking.

 

Perfect, thank you very much!

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

Perfect, thank you very much!

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

 

No worries. Another way to think about it is if you're in a strike package and there are other attacks going all around at various times - more than likely you've been in a mass briefing where the entire strike package timing and sequence has been briefed to everyone. So the other strikers as well as the escort guys all know when and where stuff is going to go boom. If you suddenly got on the radio on the common strike freq that is being used by AWACs and the CAP bubbas to sort out the bandits and called "pickle", everyone on that net would likely immediately 1) go WTF? and 2) would wonder who that was, were it was, is it near them, do they need to move, etc. It would cause mass confusion. About the most you would ever want to say is something to the effect that you are attack complete and egressing in a certain direction so the Escorts/CAP guys know that you're headed their way again and don't mistake you for a bad guy coming hot on their radar. But again, in a properly planned strike package, they would already know that based on timing and they would also be able to see you on Link 16 as well. But back in the day before data link, a head's up call on strike freq that you're attack complete (Miller Time) was appreciated and SA enhancing.

 

The times where you are calling weapons releases as I described previously would all occur on a discrete Freq with the JTAC, FAC-A or or another flight. Only a very few people would be on that radio net, so more talking is not really as big deal. The more players on the radio, the less talking you will want to do unless you have something that everyone needs to hear, such as being engaged defensive @ bullseye 350/69.

Sigh

 

The dude would argue with a brick wall.

 

Also...yellow tails are poo. :)

 

Also...yellow tails are poo. :)

 

Only cuz you're jealous ;)

Only cuz you're jealous ;)

 

Hey man, if you like ridin’ red rockets into battle, that don’t bother me none. :D

A semi-old topic but germane to me in some mission building I'm working on.

 

From the conversation I understand that certain shots require a brevity call - FOX 1, 2, 3; MAGNUM, RIFFLE and maybe PIG.  

 

I understand that there is no need for a LGB or JDAM call in many circumstances and in fact "Multi Service Brevity Codes, NTTP 6-02.1, did FEB 2002, does not let any (does anybody know if that is the latest edition?).

 

However, as watch YT video of soldiers/marines in combat, and try to listen to the radio chatter, they seem to be getting some type of calls - from the aircraft? a JTAC? Specifically, they seem to know type / number of bombs inbound, time to impact (1:30 then 30). 

 

My question: in certain circumstances–like letting ground pounders know what is inbound–are there usual "semi-standard" calls for JDAM and/or LGB drops?

 

 

The most recent revision of the MULTI-SERVICE TACTICS, TECHNIQUES, AND PROCEDURES FOR MULTI-SERVICE BREVITY CODES, short BREVITY is from May 2020:

 

https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?PUB_ID=1009227

 

While there is indeed no brevity call for JDAMs or GBUs per se, you could say that:

 

PINBALL [A/A] [A/S] Laser guided munition has separated from its launching vehicle and captured laser designator.

 

Is related to LGBs, but more relevant is the actual JTAC operation: if you read up in the JP 3-09.3 on CAS, you will see that the talk on process with the JTAC clearly defines the munitions to be used during the gameplan and 9-line, so when the pilot is cleared hot and performs the laser-related comms for use of LGBs, or announces the release of the weapons in question during attack ("1 away, off to the north" or whatever), the JTAC will exactly know what is on it's way, without the need for a specific brevity code.

Compare that to the more dynamic, less structured nature of air to air combat, ASuW, etc. where that sort of comms are not in place, thus creating the need for call-outs to give a picture of the weapons in employ.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Shimmergloom667

On 1/15/2020 at 3:45 AM, KlarSnow said:

If you truly want to start getting tactical with how strikes and bomb drops are coordinated, give supporting or other assets your target location, and your time on target (TOT). This info is HUUUUGE from an escort perspective, because it tells them WHERE to protect, and for UNTIL WHEN. Once they know that, escort or other things in theater, no longer need to hear anything from you unless something changes, such as the time of your impact, or that you are threatened along your route and need assistance.

 

Your Time on Target can also be a window, IE HAWG flight will be engaging targets in vicinity of XYZ for the next 5 minutes, and then egressing south.

 

That gives far more SA to airborne assets than you calling Pickle, Paveway, Etc, for each bomb release.

 

This. When I fly on some public MP servers, I only hear two things:

 

- People calling their takeoffs / landings on ATC freq

- People calling Fox 3 on tactical frequency, without saying at who or where. Which is almost completely useless.

Thanks. 

 

I'm focused on developing SP missions and am looking for ways that an AI wingman can call an A2G shot as a heads up/SA to the player, as well as the player making a call (purely for "environment").  The standard AI does a pretty good job with simple "Missile Away", etc.  That said, I am looking to program in a bit more.  For example, having an allied SEAD flight call Magnum to let you know that the enemy SAM should be going down soon.  Likewise another flight calling a JDAM or LGB drop, partially as "ear candy" and partially to build some SA in the mission.

 

Thanks again.

On 1/10/2020 at 9:52 PM, Jetguy06 said:

I've been trying to find the brevity term for releasing a JDAM. I used to think it was "Bruiser," but that is for an anti-ship missile. Can anyone please enlighten me?

 

Brevity for a JDAM release is "Thunder"