I suck at shooting the gun! HELP!

Seriously, I am the worst when it comes to shooting the gun A2A. I'm sort of ok when I am gently tracking a turning target and pulling him into the BATR but when the target jinks I have a real hard time putting the BATR dot on him.

Any tips on how to get better?

Have some trigger disciplin. Shoot when you have optimal conditions, not just the dot on the plane.

if jinks didnt throw off the attackers aim they wouldnt be done

Gunfights are for WW2 planes. When you've shot off your last 9X in the Viper. Get out of there.

Gunfights are for WW2 planes. When you've shot off your last 9X in the Viper. Get out of there.

LOL, that's my policy as well:pilotfly:

stay at sustaining G's and in a lead pursuit .....do not be anxious to put the gun dot in the aircraft always try to put the gun dot in front of the nose of targeted aircraft ...for practice just pull more G' so the gun cross to be far enough in front of the bandit then pull sustain G's in order to have the same flight path with the bandit , the same turn, do that without to push the trigger when becoming comfortable with turn , then push the trigger. I hope the ED creates the simulated bullet trajectory with scor on in MFD.

Gunnery shots are difficult...just keep practicing. When I was in the USAF on EC-130s back in the mid 90s, we were at Nellis AFB for Green Flag. After the morning push was over & everyone was heading back to base, the AWACS asked us to stay in our orbit for 30 extra minutes. There was a flight of 4 F-16s that wanted to practice intercepts on us. We were told afterwards that performing gunnery attacks are hard, but even more difficult on slow-moving targets & this was a rare opportunity for them to practice on us. So, don’t feel bad if you can’t get it right the first time, the professionals have trouble too!

The gunsight is just plain horrible. HUD is overcluttered with worthless information for anything other than an in plane tracking shot. For the majority of snapshots you're better off aiming with the gun cross.

In comparison the modes you have in the F-14 or the F-15 are infinitely better.

The gunsight is just plain horrible. HUD is overcluttered with worthless information for anything other than an in plane tracking shot. For the majority of snapshots you're better off aiming with the gun cross.

 

In comparison the modes you have in the F-14 or the F-15 are infinitely better.

I think I'll disagree with you, yes the hud is very cluttered but if you lock up the target and use the radar assisted gunsight, you will still be able to see the little aiming circle. Once you concentrate on it, it actually becomes really easy to shoot locked up targets down.

Plus the gunsight is really stable so it makes it the more easier.

Though I guess this was your opinion so I'm tellling you mine.

stay at sustaining G's and in a lead pursuit .....do not be anxious to put the gun dot in the aircraft always try to put the gun dot in front of the nose of targeted aircraft ...for practice just pull more G' so the gun cross to be far enough in front of the bandit then pull sustain G's in order to have the same flight path with the bandit , the same turn, do that without to push the trigger when becoming comfortable with turn , then push the trigger. I hope the ED creates the simulated bullet trajectory with scor on in MFD.

 

Yes, when the bogey is moving like that I am OK with getting a shot in but when the jinks start I really struggle to get optimal shooting conditions which as someone above mentioned is the reason defenders jink. Of course that makes sense... it just seems that whenever I dogfight someone they get a shot on me pretty quick. Could be luck, could be skill. The F18 and F14 guys also seem to out turn me quite easily. I try to keep around 330 kts for the optimum turn rate.

Gunfights are for WW2 planes. When you've shot off your last 9X in the Viper. Get out of there.

Yeah good point but I am going through a phase of practicing BFM and shooting the gun. It's kinda comical how crap I am at getting a good shot. I can track someone nicely and be in the ballpark for a shot but I miss quite often.

Gunnery shots are difficult...just keep practicing. When I was in the USAF on EC-130s back in the mid 90s, we were at Nellis AFB for Green Flag. After the morning push was over & everyone was heading back to base, the AWACS asked us to stay in our orbit for 30 extra minutes. There was a flight of 4 F-16s that wanted to practice intercepts on us. We were told afterwards that performing gunnery attacks are hard, but even more difficult on slow-moving targets & this was a rare opportunity for them to practice on us. So, don’t feel bad if you can’t get it right the first time, the professionals have trouble too!

Interesting to hear and glad it's not just me then! Were those intercept standard STERN intercepts or?

I think I'll disagree with you, yes the hud is very cluttered but if you lock up the target and use the radar assisted gunsight, you will still be able to see the little aiming circle. Once you concentrate on it, it actually becomes really easy to shoot locked up targets down.

Plus the gunsight is really stable so it makes it the more easier.

Though I guess this was your opinion so I'm tellling you mine.

You find the gunsight stable? Maybe in a sustained G turn but when I change the bank angle or G the thing is all over the place.

Something to key on, in Dogfight Mode, is the info in the lower right of the HUD. It’s telling you distance in Feet and closure speed. Get close, match speed and your target has nowhere to go but down in flames.

Wish this same data was present in the Helmet display too but unfortunately, it’s only on the HUD.

I think I'll disagree with you, yes the hud is very cluttered but if you lock up the target and use the radar assisted gunsight, you will still be able to see the little aiming circle. Once you concentrate on it, it actually becomes really easy to shoot locked up targets down.

Plus the gunsight is really stable so it makes it the more easier.

Though I guess this was your opinion so I'm tellling you mine.

There is so much more information on the F16 HUD and if you are in less than optimal conditions they can rreally save your bacon, not like those found in the aforementioned aircraft.:smilewink:

Interesting to hear and glad it's not just me then! Were those intercept standard STERN intercepts or?

I think they were attacking from all quarters...we never saw them until they zoomed away. Our copilot was all excited yelling “look at ‘em go!”, but our pilot was more glum saying “you realize that guy shot us 3 times in 30 seconds?”.

Had another go at dogfighting in multiplayer last night. I shot down about 4 aircraft but got shot down at least 10 times. So my kill/be killed ratio is no bueno!

My trigger discipline is getting better but I think I need to work on my BFM skills. I am making my way through the F16 Basic Employment Manual Air to Air chapter, Air Combat by Shaw and starting on The Art of the Kill to gain more knowledge. Some of these guys online are incredible with how quickly they get on my 6 and are able to shoot me down with a quick squeeze of the trigger.

Just wondering, does the funnel on the HUD adjust when you change the wingspan setting on the UFC? I know it's supposed to but is this actually modeled in DCS?

I also noticed that most guys prefer to fly the F18/F14 and Mirage for dogfighting. i wonder if that is because of their good performance or because the modules have been out for longer than the Viper.

It's the same with online dogfighting championships. I wonder if this year we will see more Vipers with online competitions.

Maybe I should also clarify that the kills on me were made by:

- SU-27

- F14

- F18

- Mirage

For some reason they seem to outperform me all the time.

Gunfights are for WW2 planes. When you've shot off your last 9X in the Viper. Get out of there.

Why?

The F-16 should be one heck of a dogfighter when very lightly loaded, since that's primarily what it was designed for... High thrust, LERX, tail-heavy FBW design and all that...

AD

Any good gunsight should be so instinctive that you do not need weeks of studying to use the symbology well. F-15 and F-14 does just that. Your HUD is clear and without any additional clutter tells you where the bandit is and where your bullets will go. The rest is up to the pilot.

In comparison in the 16 you have a worthless gun funnel that only gets exponentially worse during any kind of out of plane maneuvering, another set of supposed "wings level" marker that is equally worthless and only takes your attention away and eventually the smallest symbol in your HUD is actually where the bullets go. This is all in HUD reject mode, don't even get me started on all the further useless shit that you have by default..

Furthermore it's a garbage gun platform due to the AoA limit, you simply cannot take snapshots that other platforms can and most gun fights are ended by a snapshot not a tracking in plane shot.

Lol. Yeah it takes some getting used to. Keep it at speed and it will tear any other machine a new one. Its an energy fighter, not a groveller like the navy machines. Don't let them sucker you onto getting slow. You loose your great advantage and run into the AoA limiter like the above guy. You will also be real easy pickings for third party bandits.

So keep her fast and vertical. Slice em and dice em baby!

Yeah good point but I am going through a phase of practicing BFM and shooting the gun. It's kinda comical how crap I am at getting a good shot. I can track someone nicely and be in the ballpark for a shot but I miss quite often.

You're trying to throw a bunch of golf balls into a small backyard pool from 1/3 of a mile away while running a 6-second mile.

Nobody said it was easy :)

AD

Why?

 

The F-16 should be one heck of a dogfighter when very lightly loaded, since that's primarily what it was designed for... High thrust, LERX, tail-heavy FBW design and all that...

 

AD

You're preaching to the choir. I have 20 years flying the Viper in BMS. I love the plane. I love gunfights. However, i'll still avoid them if possible.

Any good gunsight should be so instinctive that you do not need weeks of studying to use the symbology well. F-15 and F-14 does just that. Your HUD is clear and without any additional clutter tells you where the bandit is and where your bullets will go. The rest is up to the pilot.

 

In comparison in the 16 you have a worthless gun funnel that only gets exponentially worse during any kind of out of plane maneuvering, another set of supposed "wings level" marker that is equally worthless and only takes your attention away and eventually the smallest symbol in your HUD is actually where the bullets go. This is all in HUD reject mode, don't even get me started on all the further useless shit that you have by default..

 

Furthermore it's a garbage gun platform due to the AoA limit, you simply cannot take snapshots that other platforms can and most gun fights are ended by a snapshot not a tracking in plane shot.

I have to agree with this. I find the funnel fine when the bandit is just moving in 1 direction. As soon as they jink and change plane of motion I struggle to get a good aim on them again. I haven't really tried any BFM in another jet so don't know if it's just my crappy aiming skills.

In addition, that funnel....does it actually change width if you change the wingspan in MAN adjust on the DED list options? pretty sure it does in Falcon BMS.....in DCS I'm not so sure.