New f18 vs mirage

So how do they stack so far? Im usually on the dogfight server and everyones using the f15. A few use the su27, and the mirage, but I hardly see any good players on the f18.

I've recently bought both, I haven't time to do much with the Hornet except some free flight and the two first lessons and I've not yet touched the Mirage, but I guess the Hornet have the lead in BVR (tho until the 120, TWS mode and some bugs fixed, it don't have his full potential, so IDK for right now) while the Mirage 2000C with his older radar sill have the edge in dogfight.

The Hornet have a better Radar and avionic while the Mirage have great thrust and acceleration, manoeuvrability and incredible instantaneous turn rate.

That's how I would see things.

So how do they stack so far? Im usually on the dogfight server and everyones using the f15. A few use the su27, and the mirage, but I hardly see any good players on the f18.

I haven't really made Air to Air on public servers specialy for the reason lots uses F-15 or Su-27 for their so many almost fire and forget missiles, need to say for the F-15, the SPAMRAAM, always easier to spam missile at someone then risking to face a skilled pilot in dogfight as in game, BVR requires way less skills. As for the SU-27, it'S electro-mag missiles. And if you see someone in Mirage or what ever deosn't have those in-game cheesy missiles, i'm sure you'Re in for a good dogfight if you get in close, cuz it might be their control zones and they dare going face to those cheesy missiles aicrafts.

I did back then a few tries on public sevcesr and totaly stop when i'Ve watched a Tacview track as i though i got killed by a guy i was in close in fight with and had a missile off before i killed him, but no, i got killed by a F-15, at 45 000 FT, spamming at me 7 AMRAMM'S in less than 7 seconds as i avoided his 2 first ones.... So that stoped me from going on there.

As to answer your question, once the Hornet get it's AIM-12- SPAMRAMM chances you'll see tons of Hornets for BVR.

[...]BVR requires way less skills[...]

I can't even start to describe how wrong this is...

The server I play on is close range combat only, so guns, aim9, magics, 27er. As for BVR requires less skill, I would say it's just a different set of skills. As demon said though that sounds like it may be right, didn't know the f18 still had a lot of things to work out.

I can't even start to describe how wrong this is...

Both needs skills, that's not the point, what i mean is..

People going in for WVR more likly needs to master lots of maneuvers, flying principle, physics principle, maintain engery or speed, trade in energy for speed, vice versa, cosntantly knows visualy where the enemy is, and believe me, in VR it's something, not like using a TIR which you turn your head 5 degree and ingame actualy turns it 90 degrees, in VR when you got to move your head, shoulders etc as the real thing, not easy and get really challenging, get in WVR with a bird armed with Fox 1's and Ffox 2's, loose eyes on that bird and no RWR to tell you that a Fox 2 has been fired if you loose visual on it, well guess what. Plus, you realise with ages, the body doesn'T move as much as it used to. :) But again, WVR in DCS makes it easy for us, as we don't suffer the constant changes in G pulling as the real pilots must deal with.

Yes BVR has tactics i don't say it doesn't, but skills in close dogfight, requires way much more skills and knowledge. Ask people pricinple of BVR and it all goes to the same thing and quite fast point out in a few sentences or points, notch, crank, beam the missile, bleed it's energy, ask for Gunfights and BFM and WVR, it can goes way further. And as DCS goes, people don't care spending 6 AAMRAM on a single target, as everthing is free, unlimited, you land, rearm. Yes in RL it's something, in DCS, video gaming industries, specialy on public Servers well, it's a matter of using 2 types of missles ltos of other aircrafts doesn't. In BVR, most all aircraft has Fox 1's and Fox 2's, so it's really different. Take someone who's kick ass at shooting SPAMRAAM, bring him close to someone flying a Mirage which knows all the basic of WVR, chances the F-15c pilot in game will end up stalling real quick.

I simply image this as 2 people fighting hand to hand, two in close uses Martial Arts, get to know all the body weakness and strenght, master moves, know physics principle, then imagine one of those two expert, coming in with a guy armed with a gun, the guy 20 feets away look at the Martial Art expert, laugh, pull out a gun, and BAM, shoot him int he head and start thinking he's hot. :) Now, let that armed guy get close to the other dude, chances he'll get disarmed and his ass kicked. But yeah doing this would make him sure to survive.

In other words, i have way much more respect for dogfighters then BVRers, but that's my own opinion.

That's all i meant.

Both needs skills, that's not the point, what i mean is..[...]

[...]BVR requires way less skills[...]

I strongly disagree here.

I think your view on BVR fight is limited. BVR isn't only Crank Notch and pump, you have a lot of maneuvers depending on the number advantage or disadvantage, you have to take into account altitude, speed, geometry, hostile aircraft technology, radar evasion and masking, ECM and CM, bullseye... And that's only the engagement itself.

When you are fighting in BVR you have a mission behind it, protect your strikers, intercept enemy bombers and escort... And you have to build your SA to be able to live.

When I fly the Mirage and I end up in a turn fight it's because I messed up my BVR fight or didn't see the guy comming.

In your example, the guy with the gun has to know how to use it, load it, aim it...

BVR on the DCS air-quake servers with "SPAMRAM" is not the same as the BVR that you can see on realistic missions.

The server I play on is close range combat only, so guns, aim9, magics, 27er. As for BVR requires less skill, I would say it's just a different set of skills. As demon said though that sounds like it may be right, didn't know the f18 still had a lot of things to work out.

Which server is this?

Right now the m2000 has the advantage

Aim7 v m530. The matra is just better

Radar . Situational awareness through tws iff is invaluable

Once stt the radar is rock solid and holds lock in the crank at a wide angle

Rwr. Missile ir launch warnings are awesome

Manoeuvre. The mirage can defeat everything else provided the pilot can finish the fight in less than 30 seconds once merged

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Which server is this?

"Just Dogfight" It's in all caps I believe. Usually has a few people on it.

I forgot about something really important in my previous message about dogfight, are we including all weapons ? Because if yes, the AIM-9X may give a huge advantage to the F-18 in a lot of situations during dogfight.

Of course the missile isn't magical and if the Hornet can't get the Mirage in his JHMCS or the trajectories of the both can't allow for a shoot it won't change anything except psychological pressure on the Mirage's pilot if he notice them.

So for BVR right now I don't know, in the future the Hornet will have the advantage, and for dogfight, right now the Mirage have it, and latter on, the Mirage will have advantage on more gun only but a hard time with close range missiles (both 120 because of they fire and forget ability and AIM9X will add advantages) fight on WVR.

I strongly disagree here.

 

I think your view on BVR fight is limited. BVR isn't only Crank Notch and pump, you have a lot of maneuvers depending on the number advantage or disadvantage, you have to take into account altitude, speed, geometry, hostile aircraft technology, radar evasion and masking, ECM and CM, bullseye... And that's only the engagement itself.

 

When you are fighting in BVR you have a mission behind it, protect your strikers, intercept enemy bombers and escort... And you have to build your SA to be able to live.

 

When I fly the Mirage and I end up in a turn fight it's because I messed up my BVR fight or didn't see the guy comming.

 

In your example, the guy with the gun has to know how to use it, load it, aim it...

 

BVR on the DCS air-quake servers with "SPAMRAM" is not the same as the BVR that you can see on realistic missions.

I agree that BVR is a skill. There is always a lot going on. I don't think the argument you are trying to make is very good though. Almost every skill you mentioned also apply's to WVR too. It sounds like you are saying if you are WVR that you don't have your mission anymore or that you don't have to have SA. It sounds like you are also saying WVR you don't need to pay attention to altitude, speed, geometry, hostile aircraft technology or countermeasures. That's nonsense.

I agree that BVR is a skill. There is always a lot going on. I don't think the argument you are trying to make is very good though. Almost every skill you mentioned also apply's to WVR too. It sounds like you are saying if you are WVR that you don't have your mission anymore or that you don't have to have SA. It sounds like you are also saying WVR you don't need to pay attention to altitude, speed, geometry, hostile aircraft technology or countermeasures. That's nonsense.

I didn't say that WVR didn't required that. I said that saying that BVR required "way less skills" is wrong and I said what came on top of my head.

Painting BVR as "notch, crank, beam the missile, bleed it's energy" is very simplistic and false. It's, as I said, WAY more.

Most of the time, If I end up in a turn fight, I'm not in position to accomplish my mission anymore.

How do you know that this is not difficult

Sorry, I´m taking the liberty of answering you here (that question you asked me yesterday).I couldn´t answer you there because the topic was closed (DCS F-18 Sub forum "Bugs").

I was talking about the bug "HSI function Brightness of the DDI L" and I said that "I don´t believe it's something so difficult to fix ..." and you did ask me how do I know.

Well, simple analogy, if you have 3 screens (2 DDIs and 1 AMPCD) with multiple functions each, only the problem happens in one DDI only and only in one function (HSI), which works perfectly on the other two screens (R DDI & AMPCD. It follows that it would not be so difficult to fix (compared to other bugs).That´s what I meant.

Btw I didn´t say it was easy to fix, I said I don´t believe it's something so difficult to fix and I still don´t.

Sorry guys for using this space to answer :), as I said that topic was closed.