Laser rockets

There's nothing realistic about this rocket anyway, it's using the wrong guidance and now it's gone from something that was using a workaround that worked albeit with a little extra range to something that still uses the wrong guidance but now doesn't work unless you fly in a dead straight line. I'll shelve these until they get the correct guidance i think...sad

Deleted

Understand now.

2 (maybe 3) patches ago it was behaving like a laser spot tracking rocket- think like a laser maverick. It was looking for a laser spot and it would fly to the laser spot making it one of the most deadly weapons in DCS. You could have maneuvered however you wanted under a spot tracking warhead, and so long as the pod kept the laser on the target, you would hit the target.

 

 

 

About 2 (maybe 3 patches ago now), the dynamics of the rocket were changed and now its a beam riding rocket (think like a Vikhr). And just like the Vikhr on the Su25t, you cant maneuver too hard while the rocket is in flight or the rocket will 'lose' the beam and then miss the target.

 

 

 

This one still has some odd rocket dynamics (anything over about 3.6 miles and the rocket spins very strangely) but I think the majority of pilots (myself included) are just frustrated that the rocket used to be very deadly and its been nerfed. I doubt this was done intentionally, this is probably all based upon feedback from people more familiar with the airframe than I am over how the weapons work. Its kind of the pitfall of buying Open Beta. As people test out the airframe and the airframe evolves based upon feedback, the airframe may not evolve in the direction you like.

 

 

 

This is definitely the case for me and the BRM. I was loving so many very deadly, basically small mavericks that were almost fire and forget. Now this plane no longer is capable to keep me out of SHORAD fire when employing the BRM (Id normally pull up hard to stay above 10k feet after firing.) But its still quite a bit of fun - you just have to relearn its new limitations as it evolves during the OpenBeta process.

 

 

 

TJ

Thank you TJ for writing it better.

It has always been beam riding

The best solution while waiting for lazED to rework their spaghetti guidance code and add SALH spinning rockets would be to just give it the L-MAV scheme.

Just remove it's lofting autopilot (this is possible), nobody cares if the rocket spin or not.

In fact, the rocket won't spin with the current scheme if EFUZ is set to SAFE, it just flies straight. (Which is also unrealistic since the rocket would spin regardless and yet, you can't tell it's not spinning from the cockpit.)

With L-MAV scheme buddy-lasing will be possible, the rocket won't react to the way we fly after we fire it since it won't have to constantly put itself between us and the target, and most importantly this "bug" introduced 2 patches ago would most likely disappear since it no longer rides around a laser beam.

No more of this, "fly straight to get a 50% chance of hitting and a higher chance of dying or shoot maneuver, and miss 100% of the time."

The best solution while waiting for lazED to rework their spaghetti guidance code and add SALH spinning rockets would be to just give it the L-MAV scheme.

 

Just remove it's lofting autopilot (this is possible), nobody cares if the rocket spin or not.

 

In fact, the rocket won't spin with the current scheme if EFUZ is set to SAFE, it just flies straight. (Which is also unrealistic since the rocket would spin regardless and yet, you can't tell it's not spinning from the cockpit.)

 

With L-MAV scheme buddy-lasing will be possible, the rocket won't react to the way we fly after we fire it since it won't have to constantly put itself between us and the target, and most importantly this "bug" introduced 2 patches ago would most likely disappear since it no longer rides around a laser beam.

 

No more of this, "fly straight to get a 50% chance of hitting and a higher chance of dying or shoot maneuver, and miss 100% of the time."

TJ

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

We will try adjust a profile for SALH scheme, but other values will aslo be changed accordingly so that the range does not get beyond what it should be.

I think there will still lots of complain about the range even after the scheme is changed to SALH.:megalol:

I just tried it now against some small trucks, and they hit every target. I even managed to get two missiles off per pass.

I'll try against other ground target types tomorrow.

We will try adjust a profile for SALH scheme, but other values will aslo be changed accordingly so that the range does not get beyond what it should be.

 

I think there will still lots of complain about the range even after the scheme is changed to SALH.:megalol:

Trust me when I say that range is not the issue we have with them. :smilewink:

We will try adjust a profile for SALH scheme, but other values will aslo be changed accordingly so that the range does not get beyond what it should be.

 

I think there will still lots of complain about the range even after the scheme is changed to SALH.:megalol:

I can't wait to see them working!!

Trust me when I say that range is not the issue we have with them. :smilewink:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^:thumbup:

I just tried it now against some small trucks, and they hit every target. I even managed to get two missiles off per pass.

 

 

I'll try against other ground target types tomorrow.

Post your tacview (ACMI) or track please

TJ

Post your tacview (ACMI) or track please

 

TJ

Done.

Tacview-20200526-010221-DCS-JF-17 - Caucus - Kobuleti - Ramp - Training - MP.txt.zip

OK, here is the TACVIEW, as U can see, I hit a moving target(20 knot) from 4.8NM, and I hit the last 2 target from over 5nm(5.6nm for the last one).

 

Tips:

1. The BRM will become very unstable below Mach 1 and likely to miss, so if U tend to fire far away, then accelerate to a higher speed(ie M0.85+). If U start the shooting at 300kts then you will get a shorter range (200kts means a lot on BRM).

 

2.When engaging static targets, you can use area track and aim the ground not the body of the target, shallow shots may near miss, if the laser is pointing on the target's body.

 

ACMI:

[ATTACH]236989[/ATTACH]

I have tried and tried and tried to reproduce this without any success at all. In some of your pull ups, you are pushing 3.5g as recorded by tacview, and you still hit 100 percent of the targets. You are firing considerably farther than I am (your last pass you recorded 3.0g up and fired at 5.2 miles) and still hit the target. If I seem to pull more than 2.2gs, I'll miss, almost guaranteed, no matter the range or speed (Ive even tried .98 mach in burner!)

Someone pointed out that target type matters - i wonder if I replace my targets with humvees if I will see similar success. Another person indicated they were having 100 percent success if they could F6 and go to the missile view... Are you doing that (I disable it, as the server I play on doesnt allow it.)

TJ

Done.

Thank you - you are very low and slow and fire very close and maintain exact same telemetry as when you fire. This isnt really something you'd ever do in combat, but ill give it a try.

TJ

Another person indicated they were having 100 percent success if they could F6 and go to the missile view... Are you doing that (I disable it, as the server I play on doesnt allow it.)

 

TJ

Nope, the flight was recorded full time that I'm inside F1 cockpit view to demostrate how the BRM really worked, F6 view is not used.

As you can see, I only pull 3-4G at the launch phase, at the terminal phase when the rocket does not have too much energy left, I'll keep the LOS as steady as possible.

And I've tried M2 M113 and other type, not making much difference.U can area track the ground in front of the target to see if there is any improvement.

And U can upload your ACMI, and we will see what's the problem on your side.

Thank you - you are very low and slow and fire very close and maintain exact same telemetry as when you fire. This isnt really something you'd ever do in combat, but ill give it a try.

 

TJ

I know... I think the missiles fly too slowly to the target.

At 400 kts you cover 4 NM in 35 seconds...

YSK #2: the Su-25's S-25L rocket spins and is SALH btw

Nope, the flight was recorded full time that I'm inside F1 cockpit view to demostrate how the BRM really worked, F6 view is not used.

 

As you can see, I only pull 3-4G at the launch phase, at the terminal phase when the rocket does not have too much energy left, I'll keep the LOS as steady as possible.

 

And I've tried M2 M113 and other type, not making much difference.U can area track the ground in front of the target to see if there is any improvement.

 

And U can upload your ACMI, and we will see what's the problem on your side.

Attached ACMI- your comment around pulling up at the launch phase solved the majority of my issues on certain types of ground units, and I wonder if there is a 'bug' around the type of unit you are lasing?

The proof? I pulled up at 5.6 and 5.3gs while attacking a vulcan (twice, in the ACMI), hit both no issue. The key was to pull up hard and fast in the early stage. If you wait, you will miss.

Now, repeat the same against the MIM-72 Chaparral, and you'll miss (3rd attack run in the ACMI.) It took three attempts to score a hit on the first MIM-72 Chaparral (I dont count one of my 4 attempts as I came in and fired too close, so the missile was in terminal phase during my pullup), and then 2 attempts on the second. All employing the same, pull up hard technique early.

The key really seems to be fire right around 4.8 miles, dont wait too long at all, and then pull up hard and get the aircraft stable quickly.

TJ

Tacview-20200526-220309-DCS-BF PG.zip.acmi.zip

YSK #2: the Su-25's S-25L rocket spins and is SALH btw

I’m pretty sure S-25 does, but are you sure S-25L spins? It seemed to have two axis control to me. The reason Vikhr and BRM spin is to make one axis control guidance work

Attached ACMI- your comment around pulling up at the launch phase solved the majority of my issues on certain types of ground units, and I wonder if there is a 'bug' around the type of unit you are lasing?

 

The proof? I pulled up at 5.6 and 5.3gs while attacking a vulcan (twice, in the ACMI), hit both no issue. The key was to pull up hard and fast in the early stage. If you wait, you will miss.

 

Now, repeat the same against the MIM-72 Chaparral, and you'll miss (3rd attack run in the ACMI.) It took three attempts to score a hit on the first MIM-72 Chaparral (I dont count one of my 4 attempts as I came in and fired too close, so the missile was in terminal phase during my pullup), and then 2 attempts on the second. All employing the same, pull up hard technique early.

 

The key really seems to be fire right around 4.8 miles, dont wait too long at all, and then pull up hard and get the aircraft stable quickly.

 

TJ

 

[ATTACH]237377[/ATTACH]

I've tested on my side, Chaparral did have some problem, rocket impact around the target with a quite high percentage. Will discuss with the team.

I just had some time today and tested BRM-1 they definitely are inaccurate 80% are missing target. they hit behind and after 180 turn i cant get point track any more

edit:

new discovery against btr-80 i hat 100% hit rate so its possible it has to do with just some ground unit

edit2:

after more testing its look like most tanks have some "laser jammer"

test all modern tanks

After some research, some vehicle models may have some problem, like the M48 has a quite LARGE bounding box defined in their 3D model, much larger and higher than actual 3D model.

So weapon may aim for the "target" that is much larger and taller than the actual target, thus cause the miss(impact around and behind the target). I suggest use AERA track and aim at the ground to check if it will be better.

After some research, some vehicle models may have some problem, like the M48 has a quite LARGE bounding box defined in their 3D model, much larger and higher than actual 3D model.

 

So weapon may aim for the "target" that is much larger and taller than the actual target, thus cause the miss(impact around and behind the target). I suggest use AERA track and aim at the ground to check if it will be better.

Thank you!

Really dumb follow up question - Ive searched both the quickguide that is the doc folder as well as Chucks Guide and cant find an answer. How do you change the TGP to Area track after its already designated in point track?

TJ

Thank you!

 

Really dumb follow up question - Ive searched both the quickguide that is the doc folder as well as Chucks Guide and cant find an answer. How do you change the TGP to Area track after its already designated in point track?

 

TJ

You can simply move the TDC when have a point track, it will auto transfer to AERA track once TDC has input.