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Old 06-21-2019, 04:40 PM   #21
209GREEN
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It's like nobody's happy! We ask you to publish both S and W!
Again, the use of a helicopter on a ship is a very new experience! We've never had an ED!
In addition, the use of the Hellfire missile will be very good news.
More speed and maneuverability, the use of rwr for the first time on a helicopter on the ED and a lot more features tells us that the W is better!
It's like nobody's happy! We ask you to publish both S and W!
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:46 PM   #22
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Maybe reduced workload due to being multircrew. Otherwise i dont think so. Ka50 better in basically superior most regards. Newer helicopter design, more modern missiles, and pretty modern avionics for a mid 90s "trial" or early production aircraft,. Th Navigation suite in particular stands out. I think the only thing that would have stood out as being more advanced would have been the AH64D but that entered service a few years afterwords.


You also have to remember how many years ago original KA50 was released. What was not possible back in 2008 might be feasible today in 2019

IN all honesty the biggest change with more modern helos comparative to Ah64A or Ah1W with post production upgrades are the electronics related to pilot user interface. Glass cockpits ( multi function displays), and HOCAS ( Hands on Collective and Stick), essentially the Rotary equivalent of HOTAS. Granted there is more but these are the two biggest things.


WE have a F/A18 Hornet. Ah64D and Ah1Z would basically be rotary equivalents of the sort of avionics you have on late gen 4 fixed wing aircraft. I wouldnt discredit the possibility of an AH64D block 1 circa Late 90s-, or an early block 2 circa 2002-2003. Maybe even an "trial" version of Ah1Z could happen, because depite the newer date, its actually less advanced in certain areas, but more intuitive in others to the Ah64D ( no radar, no Radar based hellfires, no datalink, simpler map modes), like larger more colourfullMFD's and a more friendly pilot software interface.
The F model had a thermal sight. Plus a RWR. Plus the guy in front calling out targets and threats. Those three things put it above the KA50 for me. Of course now our upgraded KA50 gets some sort of missile approach system, and iglas. So there is that. The KA-50 definitely was more modern, but the version we have seems to have been designed for use in lower threat environments.
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Old 06-22-2019, 01:01 AM   #23
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The F model had a thermal sight. Plus a RWR. Plus the guy in front calling out targets and threats. Those three things put it above the KA50 for me. Of course now our upgraded KA50 gets some sort of missile approach system, and iglas. So there is that. The KA-50 definitely was more modern, but the version we have seems to have been designed for use in lower threat environments.
FYI Not all F models had thermal sights. ( hopefully we do get CNITE)


In any case , Ah1F's use in a contested environment is arguably more lacking, because TOW's don't have sufficient standoff range. Ah1F has no Hellfires. laser guided munitions which also have the benefit of being able to be designated by 3rd party; either JTAC on the ground or another aircraft in the skies. And its CM suite isnt as good as you think, just because it has a RWR. Ah1F would be relying only on AN/ALQ144 IR jammer to spoof IR missiles. It doesn't have flares. IT only uses a single M130 Chaff dispenser set which is manually operated and has not semi automatic or Automatic programming.

IN comparison the Ah1W CM suite is better because it still has AN/ALQ 144 IR jammer but also uses AN/AlE 39 CM set from F/A18 hornet that has both flares & chaff, and various programming modes. If your looking at a early to mid 2000s version you also have a laser & missile warning system integrated now ( if you fly the A10C you see how useful that feature is) . The Ah1W is the Cobra that can actually want operate in a contested environment. Not to mention it will have Aim9's for self defense. Ah1F does not meaning, that KA50's with thier IGLAS or even Mi24's ( some versions had R60s) are going going to have the potential to shoot you down.



The max range of TOW's are 3.75km. ( limited due to wire length)

Vikhirs fly to 10km. Not to mention you can equip a vaster quantity of them than you can carrying TOW's.

K25ML range up to 11KM out ranging even the Hellfire missiles which have a max range of 8km.


That means that Relative to Ka50, that AH1F will always have to get much closer to target,and thus be more vulnerable at getting shot at either by gun based air defences, or Armored vehicles own defenses ( Bmp2's or T72B/T80/T90s can shoot AGTM's at you if you are within 4km or less). The AH1F is very fragile helicopter that can't handle taking even hits small arms fire . Ah1F has inferior redundancy due to having only twin rotors, and a single engine.
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Old 06-22-2019, 01:31 AM   #24
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I am well aware of the AH-1 platform and it's variants.





No way we are getting an AH-1Z. The Navy would not allow it, I am pretty sure they wouldn't have allowed the W either but that may be outdated info now, either way I'll probably end up disappointed so I am not going to get my hopes up. AH-64D may be possible, I am pretty sure ED is doing one for TBS if their website isn't just BS. At the very least I expect to eventually get an AH-64A Blk.49A

Also I'd take a UH-1Y Venom over anything less than an AH-1W.

The US military isn't really concerned with vehicle type being simulated, but rather the means of how information was acquired. IF you can legally aquire the technical documentation, or simply estimate its functions from various open sourced material, there is no problem. Otherwise there wouldn't be a 3rd party made F35A in that 3 lettered simulator available on the consumer market thats owned by Lockheed Martin.

A Pre series AH1Z manual from 2008 has a lower restriction rating of "C" ( not export restricted like "D" level) than AH64D revised manuals post 2003 have. Only 2003 and earlier revisions retain the lower C rating. This is the same level of restriction rating you will find on Hornet and Viper manuals. that ED used for these modules. you have to remember that the Ah1Z didnt enter IOC until end of 2010/ early 2011. So having a Pre series AH1Z would reflection of what ED with Ka50.


Ah1Z, (at least pre series) It is less advanced than the Longbow from early to mid 2000s, it just has more modern displays and newer User Interface along with a Missile warning system, and with having a JHMCS contempoary helmet visor integration instead of a monacle piece that Apache has. Otherwise by in large the Longbow despite its earlier introduction date is more advanced helicopter. Datalinks, more advanced navigation suite, AGM78 radar, and associated AGM114L etc.


THe Ah1W should especially be realsitic to expect, as its been withdrawn from active duty service last year. Only a few reaming reserve attack helicopter squadrons have it and is set to be entirely retired by 2020. Like any aircraft no ones saying it has to be a 2018 era Whiskey, but utilizing information from older revision dates. just like ED did for Hornet ( circa 2005) or is currently doing for the Viper, ( circa 2007)



SHort answer: the Ah1W is basically a contemporary to the avionics found in AH64A, however as an air frame the Ah64A is still the more modern design. Either way Both Ah1W and AH64A are largely obsolete by today's standards.
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:08 AM   #25
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FYI Not all F models had thermal sights. ( hopefully we do get CNITE)


In any case , Ah1F's use in a contested environment is arguably more lacking, because TOW's don't have sufficient standoff range. Ah1F has no Hellfires. laser guided munitions which also have the benefit of being able to be designated by 3rd party; either JTAC on the ground or another aircraft in the skies. And its CM suite isnt as good as you think, just because it has a RWR. Ah1F would be relying only on AN/ALQ144 IR jammer to spoof IR missiles. It doesn't have flares. IT only uses a single M130 Chaff dispenser set which is manually operated and has not semi automatic or Automatic programming.

IN comparison the Ah1W CM suite is better because it still has AN/ALQ 144 IR jammer but also uses AN/AlE 39 CM set from F/A18 hornet that has both flares & chaff, and various programming modes. If your looking at a early to mid 2000s version you also have a laser & missile warning system integrated now ( if you fly the A10C you see how useful that feature is) . The Ah1W is the Cobra that can actually want operate in a contested environment. Not to mention it will have Aim9's for self defense. Ah1F does not meaning, that KA50's with thier IGLAS or even Mi24's ( some versions had R60s) are going going to have the potential to shoot you down.



The max range of TOW's are 3.75km. ( limited due to wire length)

Vikhirs fly to 10km. Not to mention you can equip a vaster quantity of them than you can carrying TOW's.

K25ML range up to 11KM out ranging even the Hellfire missiles which have a max range of 8km.


That means that Relative to Ka50, that AH1F will always have to get much closer to target,and thus be more vulnerable at getting shot at either by gun based air defences, or Armored vehicles own defenses ( Bmp2's or T72B/T80/T90s can shoot AGTM's at you if you are within 4km or less). The AH1F is very fragile helicopter that can't handle taking even hits small arms fire . Ah1F has inferior redundancy due to having only twin rotors, and a single engine.
I'm not saying the ka50 wasn't the better bird. I was designed 30 years later or so.

The F manual I have states it has thermals and the ALE39 RWR. But you are totally right about the tow not having the same range, and it carried fewer.

Also I think the DCS tanks are way overmodeled. But that's a whole other issue.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:32 PM   #26
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I'm not saying the ka50 wasn't the better bird. I was designed 30 years later or so.

The F manual I have states it has thermals and the ALE39 RWR. But you are totally right about the tow not having the same range, and it carried fewer.

Also I think the DCS tanks are way overmodeled. But that's a whole other issue.

Yes the manual ihave too references revision for addition of CNITE (thermals) , but it doesnt specifically say it was applied to all AH1F's. Books written on the Ah1F say that CNITE was installed on some, but not entire Ah1F fleet. Which is why CNITE is not a 100% a sure thing for an Ah1F module. I think we will have to wait for feature confirmation from ED to be certain what to expect. Its very understandable why most would want an all weather capable AH1F, than day only Ah1F, and i do hope that does get added.

AS for RWR it the AN/APR39 V1 ( or post revision) the AN/APR 39A V1 not "ALE 39".

AN/APR39 is the RWR. AN/ALE 39 is a Counter measures dispenser suite ( flare and chaff with various programmable modes) . 2 totally different things.

The Ah1F doesn't have AN/ALE39 CM suite , but a single M130 Chaff dispenser unit ( which is only manually dispensed) , whereas the Ah1W does have the ALE39.

AN/ALE39 is system that was installed F/A18A and F/A18C hornets up until lot 17 production. Lot 18 and later had AN/ALE47 installed.
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:52 AM   #27
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I vote for AH-1W as well. I'd like something a bit more current. I think the Whiskey would satisfy more folks, especially the rotor heads.
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:14 AM   #28
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Yes the manual ihave too references revision for addition of CNITE (thermals) , but it doesnt specifically say it was applied to all AH1F's. Books written on the Ah1F say that CNITE was installed on some, but not entire Ah1F fleet. Which is why CNITE is not a 100% a sure thing for an Ah1F module. I think we will have to wait for feature confirmation from ED to be certain what to expect. Its very understandable why most would want an all weather capable AH1F, than day only Ah1F, and i do hope that does get added.

AS for RWR it the AN/APR39 V1 ( or post revision) the AN/APR 39A V1 not "ALE 39".

AN/APR39 is the RWR. AN/ALE 39 is a Counter measures dispenser suite ( flare and chaff with various programmable modes) . 2 totally different things.

The Ah1F doesn't have AN/ALE39 CM suite , but a single M130 Chaff dispenser unit ( which is only manually dispensed) , whereas the Ah1W does have the ALE39.

AN/ALE39 is system that was installed F/A18A and F/A18C hornets up until lot 17 production. Lot 18 and later had AN/ALE47 installed.
My bad, didn't have the book in front of me. ALQ APR, at least I got the 39 bit right

Anyhow, my point is that the F model with FLIR isn't terrible and it served till 1999. Game wise its basically an armored gazelle that can carry 8 tows and hydras and a gun... I mean its an upgrade to the gaz with 4 hots. And at least at night it should be better than a ka50 with no FLIR. Plus we hopefully get some sort of AI gunner. So not bad. Sure I'd like a more modern bird, but if ED can't get docs I doubt Raz can.

I don't have a ton of trouble killing things with the hot armed GAZ, and finding targets with the flir is usually easier than the abris, even in daytime. What usually gets me is a tungaska or radar sams that I have no warning of in the KA50. In the gazelle I can usually evade them, though there guns often kill me since it takes 1 round to do it, whereas I can limp a ka50 home after being gunned. So this is in a way the best of both worlds.
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:30 AM   #29
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My bad, didn't have the book in front of me. ALQ APR, at least I got the 39 bit right

Anyhow, my point is that the F model with FLIR isn't terrible and it served till 1999. Game wise its basically an armored gazelle that can carry 8 tows and hydras and a gun... I mean its an upgrade to the gaz with 4 hots. And at least at night it should be better than a ka50 with no FLIR. Plus we hopefully get some sort of AI gunner. So not bad. Sure I'd like a more modern bird, but if ED can't get docs I doubt Raz can.

I don't have a ton of trouble killing things with the hot armed GAZ, and finding targets with the flir is usually easier than the abris, even in daytime. What usually gets me is a tungaska or radar sams that I have no warning of in the KA50. In the gazelle I can usually evade them, though there guns often kill me since it takes 1 round to do it, whereas I can limp a ka50 home after being gunned. So this is in a way the best of both worlds.
I dont know If ED cant get documentation or not, I dont recall it ever being communicated that was the reason. In fact no exact reason was stated why they decided with AH1F

IF i can find AH1W documentation ED most certainly can too.

Most people speculate its because the they wanted something akin to a western companion/contemporary to the soviet MI24P, rather than something more modern. But honestly theres really no true contemporary. Mi24 is its own beast. ITs a Hybrid of a Gunship and transport.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:56 PM   #30
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I dont know If ED cant get documentation or not, I dont recall it ever being communicated that was the reason. In fact no exact reason was stated why they decided with AH1F

IF i can find AH1W documentation ED most certainly can too.

Most people speculate its because the they wanted something akin to a western companion/contemporary to the soviet MI24P, rather than something more modern. But honestly theres really no true contemporary. Mi24 is its own beast. ITs a Hybrid of a Gunship and transport.
Well, the level of documentation required tends to go well beyond what's in a flight manual in general. And yes I'm speculating that it might be more of a problem for a more recent helicopter like the W series.

And yes I think if we look at the way BST has done modules in the past, they tended to come as a "matched set" (mig15/F86) (huey/Mi8 ) (F5E/L39). So Mi24V (E) and AH1F are generally 'ish speaking cold war era gunship rivals. Also, from what I understand the DCS Mi24 won't carry troops, which is a shame as it was an interesting air assault capability. Though given what "air" assault currently looks like in the game its a bit limited.

I agree the W (marines) would be a better fit for the current "carrier/amphib" centric DCS world development though. Then again alot of folks want more cold war era stuff, which will also be coming with the F4E/F8 modules. And honestly I think ED can do a more realistic job of simulating cold war era "small wars" than more modern conflicts given the limitiations of the engine/sensor modeling.
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