Razbam Teasing CH-53 Sea Stallion?? - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


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Old 06-14-2017, 03:42 PM   #21
Texac
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Now that there might be chance for a CH-53 module is there also a higher chance now for an AI KC-130 tanker now?

Would love to do AAR with the Stallion from a tanker.

And regarding the different versions not all CH-53's were equiped with a refueling probe so I think, whether AI or Player controlled, we should get at least a CH-53E then, right?
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:47 PM   #22
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Because it represents a man hour commitment .... Delaying the release of the RadarBAM aircraft in favor of a heavy lift chopper
I guess the point of the pic is to get us to speculate, but I am still amazed at how folks can speculate so .... wildly.

Especially in the face of hard information to the contrary.

Developers have indicated time and time and time again that it is not an all or nothing thing. Work on module does not necessarily mean work taken away from another module. Some work proceeds more quickly than others, while others move more slowly. Yet the team persists. Sometimes a particular module is stuck on part of the pipeline, leaving the rest of the team with idle hands. So while one --- or even several --- modules are being worked on by some of the team, or waiting their turn to be worked on by some of the team, other members of team get cracking on another module. This issue of zero-sum game development comes up whenever the idea of new module gets floated, or even when people get upset about perceived delays in their favorite module .... and the answer is always the same.

Now, I am not saying you are wrong about the conclusion that this is an AI ... just your reasoning for it is totally off.

And as far as measuring popularity goes, neither you nor I know about the relative demand for an iconic big heavy lift helicopter that has seen and continues to see active service around the world in combat as well as non-combat operations vs. say, a niche B-list long-retired aircraft that after a short, uneventful career faded quietly away in retirement. ( j/k, of course )
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by QuiGon View Post
You're right, Germany is just using a modified D-version.

Now the question is: Which variant is RAZBAM developing?
Some user more informed than me said:
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Originally Posted by Vampyre View Post
The AAQ-29 mounted on a boom offset port gives it away as a modernized CH-53E Super Sea Stallion. There are no S-65's that have had a FLIR mounted in this way.
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:56 PM   #24
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About the whole manhour fuss..
You guys do realize that every member or members of their team has their own craftsmanship, so there is 3D Modelling, texturing, animations, coding and God knows what else there is. Half of the modules discussed here are already in the coding phase which usually takes the most time by far. So what do you do with the rest of the crew that does not know how to code but can only model? Right, you think of something new, you think ahead, you think about the future. And everytime they do that, and show it to the public, 50% of the people lose their shit and get hyped, the other 50% starts nagging about 'unfinished modules like the M2K' and 'they already are working on 5 new planes while they have not even finished 1'. I mean seriously, lets the developers do their job and we will do ours, which is buy their product,enjoy it and provide them with valuable feedback after we have acutally flown the thing. If we leave all the rest to them then this community would be so much better.
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:57 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bearfoot View Post
I guess the point of the pic is to get us to speculate, but I am still amazed at how folks can speculate so .... wildly.

Especially in the face of hard information to the contrary.

Developers have indicated time and time and time again that it is not an all or nothing thing. Work on module does not necessarily mean work taken away from another module. Some work proceeds more quickly than others, while others move more slowly. Yet the team persists. Sometimes a particular module is stuck on part of the pipeline, leaving the rest of the team with idle hands. So while one --- or even several --- modules are being worked on by some of the team, or waiting their turn to be worked on by some of the team, other members of team get cracking on another module. This issue of zero-sum game development comes up whenever the idea of new module gets floated, or even when people get upset about perceived delays in their favorite module .... and the answer is always the same.

Now, I am not saying you are wrong about the conclusion that this is an AI ... just your reasoning for it is totally off.

And as far as measuring popularity goes, neither you nor I know about the relative demand for an iconic big heavy lift helicopter that has seen and continues to see active service around the world in combat as well as non-combat operations vs. say, a niche B-list long-retired aircraft that after a short, uneventful career faded quietly away in retirement. ( j/k, of course )
Flight model coding and avionics will be the major stumbling blocks for the first modern chopper that RAZBAM will develop. Those same coders will be also heavily needed when the RadarBAM fleet begins development. D
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:57 PM   #26
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About the whole manhour fuss..
You guys do realize that every member or members of their team has their own craftsmanship, so there is 3D Modelling, texturing, animations, coding and God knows what else there is. Half of the modules discussed here are already in the coding phase which usually takes the most time by far. So what do you do with the rest of the crew that does not know how to code but can only model? Right, you think of something new, you think ahead, you think about the future. And everytime they do that, and show it to the public, 50% of the people lose their shit and get hyped, the other 50% starts nagging about 'unfinished modules like the M2K' and 'they already are working on 5 new planes while they have not even finished 1'. I mean seriously, lets the developers do their job and we will do ours, which is buy their product,enjoy it and provide them with valuable feedback after we have acutally flown the thing. If we leave all the rest to them then this community would be so much better.
Yep.

Yep, yep, yep.
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:59 PM   #27
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Another heli ? Hum, day one for me
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:59 PM   #28
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Flight model coding and avionics will be the major stumbling blocks for the first modern chopper that RAZBAM will develop. Those same coders will be also heavily needed when the RadarBAM fleet begins development. D

.... says some random guy on the internet who really has NO idea, not a smidgen of a clue, of the work, workload, division of labor, organization of said labor, development pipelines OR schedules of the task.

"Naaah, you're wrong. They'll be able to do it if they want", says some other random guy (me) on the internet who really has NO idea, not a smidgen of a clue, of the work, workload, division of labor, organization of said labor, development pipelines OR schedules of the task.


EDIT: you may be right about those components being stumbling block ... but that does not mean they are going say, "oh, a bottleneck in the pipeline! dammit, we can't do a helicopter" are they? They may still get the low-hanging fruit first to keep their, e.g., 3D model people busy while other aircraft have the FM/avionics worked on, and just cross that bridge when they come to it, even if that bridge is 4-5 years down the line.

EDIT2: and again, I am not saying you wrong about the AI thing. Just that the argument you are trotting out is a tired old one that has been explicitly discredited by developers who actually work on these things.

Last edited by Bearfoot; 06-14-2017 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Bearfoot View Post
.... says some random guy on the internet who really has NO idea, not a smidgen of a clue, of the work, workload, division of labor, organization of said labor, development pipelines OR schedules of the task.

"Naaah, you're wrong. They'll be able to do it if they want", says some other random guy (me) on the internet who really has NO idea, not a smidgen of a clue, of the work, workload, division of labor, organization of said labor, development pipelines OR schedules of the task.
Fundamental realities. I work in machining, so I do understand division of labor, schedules and development pipelines. I have two parts, both need to use the same machine. I must machine one, then switch to the other, both parts cannot be worked on at the same time. Now these parts may need to be machined on by several other setups on other machines, but if both need to be done on one machine, there creates a bottleneck. Let's go further, and say that only part of the part can be completed before it needs this machining work to be done, in which case I may have the rest of the job spread out on multiple other machines, but until I finish the work that needs to be done on the part on this machine, the whole program is stalled. Avionics and Flight Model are critical components and much is built on top of them.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:10 PM   #30
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Fundamental realities. I work in machining, so I do understand division of labor, schedules and development pipelines. I have two parts, both need to use the same machine. I must machine one, then switch to the other, both parts cannot be worked on at the same time. Now these parts may need to be machined on by several other setups on other machines, but if both need to be done on one machine, there creates a bottleneck. Let's go further, and say that only part of the part can be completed before it needs this machining work to be done, in which case I may have the rest of the job spread out on multiple other machines, but until I finish the work that needs to be done on the part on this machine, the whole program is stalled. Avionics and Flight Model are critical components and much is built on top of them.
Bigger realities: you do not develop flight sims.

You may understand the general principles of division of labor, schedules and development pipelines etc. etc. etc., but you have no clue how it works in a third-party shop developing for ED.

None at all.

I actually develop software myself. Guess what? I'll freely admit that would I too would be totally off base have on how ED or their third-party partners organize dtheir work if I were to extrapolate on my personal experience.

But guess what? If you make an effort to actually LISTEN to what they say (or READ what they write), you would realize that your speculation that work on a helo module would result in slow downs on other modules is fundamentally wrong. That, my friend, is the most bigly reality for you

EDIT: as for "much being built on top of avionics and FM", as the community A4 project, the Tu-22 project, Upuat's Bell 47 etc. all demonstrate, you can go pretty far with just the SFM and off the shelf components. Sure, once all that is done and time comes for the FM, that bottleneck may be an issue. But hey, that's 1,2,5? years down the road? And by that time, the bottleneck may not be a bottleneck anymore. Or all the current active aircraft have cleared that hurdle so it's now this guy's turn? See, no delay ...

Last edited by Bearfoot; 06-14-2017 at 04:16 PM.
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