A-A refueling does not fill drop tanks - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 12-18-2017, 02:01 PM   #11
robgraham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC_Trev View Post
Wait, should drop tanks get filled in A/A refueling? As long as I've known, tactical jet fuel distribution systems have never had the ability to pump fuel into drop tanks.

RAZBAM take a good look at this with your SME's before adding a capability that should not exist.
Yes the drop tanks should, just go read the actual natops flight manual, when externals are on the fuel light system changes to only light once they are filled or to flash if one st is filled when you have both on. The tanks use the SAME fuel line system as the ground and ALL modern Aircraft can fill their drop tanks it’s not uncommon for both AV8’s, FA18’s, F15’s and F16’s to tank once their externals are empty on long missions to refill the tanks. Not to mention if the AV8 couldn’t then when the USMC does on station swaps there would be AV8’s basically constantly attached to a tanker the entire way.

As for the other comment on fuel flow, no.. no engine short of afterburning uses more fuel then the Air to Air refueling manifold can supply even on a P&D. The system is specifically designed to pump about 2000 - 6000 pound per minute into the aircraf, most jet turbines are burning that per hour. On average with the fuel being burnt by the Pegasus engine, four tanks and hooking on at about half internals left it should take 10-15 minutes to fill the AV8B back to full load.

It is dependent on speeds of the aircraft at the time of tanking.

At the moment there is a bug in the Harrier either in that it’s not showing we are filling the externals or it’s not filling them and it’s also doing weird things to the FLight Dynamics when you try and refuel with that happening as mentioned.

If you want the natops pages I can hand them to you or in the early access manual just click Air to Air refueling which summarises the natops version.
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Old 12-18-2017, 03:54 PM   #12
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Strangely enough in release 1.5.8 last night with externals on the inboard pylons they took fuel when air refueling from the KC-130.

I’ll do some more testing tonight or tomorrow.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:07 AM   #13
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We’re they empty when you begun?
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Old 01-01-2018, 03:20 AM   #14
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I managed to catch this particular bug on video.

After the internal tanks fill, the plane takes fuel, (as evidenced by the increased AoA and throttle needed to maintain position with the tanker.) However, the drop tanks never register as "full," and so the plane keeps drinking, and drinking. I have no idea where all that fuel is going, but its mass definitely degrades performance. In one session, the Harrier was able to drink the entire KC-130's payload dry. That just shouldn't be possible.

Worse, this excess fuel does not appear to be burnable by the engine, nor dumped overboard, so it's simply dead weight that you cannot get rid of.


https://youtu.be/h1jw5TE4wdo
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robgraham View Post
should take 10-15 minutes to fill the AV8B back to full load.
It's gonna be a frosty day in the hot place before I can stay in the basket that long ....
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:44 PM   #16
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Confirmed on 2.5
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Experienced in Aerobatics multiplayer servers and private multiplayer servers.


Repro steps:
New Harrier
Add "Empty Fuel tanks" on tarmac
Take off
Met with KC-130 for refuel.
Connect and fill up.
External Empty Tanks never fill. They remain empty.

Not tested in Single.
Not tested with other Tankers
Not tested with Full External Tanks that are emptied by normal means (consuming fuel).
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC_Trev View Post
It's gonna be a frosty day in the hot place before I can stay in the basket that long ....
I'm lucky if I can stay there more than 15 seconds...

Would be easier if the drogue wouldn't hang too low. Just compare, even if it's a VC-10 tanker there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxNtwZRv92k&t=39m54s

The fuel pod is roughly at 5° up, whereas in DCS...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLx-Q9_4VTU&t=6m6s

... it's more than 10°. And the VC-10 goes faster. A lot faster, but the drogue doesn't change it's attitude in DCS relative to speed. It's alot harder to align and stay due to the fact you have no hard reference. If you just have to place your left 5 over the pod, it's probably piece of cake.

But of course there are other factors that play a vital role. The lack of "ass gauge" alone is probably the biggest one. In DCS, you feel nothing. Absolutely nothing. There isn't even FFB implemented in case of the Harrier yet. Another is the stick travel. Not everyone has a stick extended, and not everyone hase one that can be extended, and even less have an FFB stick that is extended (probably less than 5 in the whole community). That means the vast majority of us, even when using curves, most probably oversteers constantly. Also the total lack of peripheral vision makes it harder. Most videos I've seen are like 90°-120° FOV probably projected at a screen of ~30° FOV. This is not the real thing, period. I tried it with the 60° I usually fly with and it's virtually impossible because it's a hard fight alone to have the HUD and the wing of the tanker on the screen at the same time alone. I don't even see the rear half of it's fuselage at all. I could increase the FOV angle, but then everything just gets too tiny and weird-looking (fish-eye effect). VR would help, but again, not everone...

Let's wait for the AFC implementation at least

Those who are able to do this, earn my absolute, total and utter respect
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:03 PM   #18
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Folks, I need to be certain of this:

a. The refueling problem applies to all external tanks, independent of status on flight start, or
b. The refueling problem only applies to the external tanks that are empty at flight start.

The empty tanks is a new feature for ED and bugs can be expected. We need the feedback on this. A saved track would be appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:05 PM   #19
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We've been testing and it looks like something is broken inside DCS and ED is the one called to fix it.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:41 PM   #20
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Yesterday I flew the Harrier with two inboard tanks (empty) and about 45% internal fuel (loadout page)
I think my fuel gauge showed about 1800lbs and it got filled up to 7700lbs (TOTAL).
No 'transfer complete' message, I disconnected about 30 seconds after the fuel meter stopped at 7700lbs.
The external tanks did not contain any fuel afterwards, at least according to the display.
I flew for a while until my fuel level allowed for a vertical landing... and dropped like a stone. The external fuels weight was there fore sure


Today I took the Mirage for a ride, and the same problem exists there, too.
- I started with 5% internal fuel and three external fuel tanks (filled)
- The fuel was successfully transfered to the internal tanks (got three RL external tanks empty warning lights and internal fuel level was raised)
- I successfully refueled on a KC-130
- 'Transfer complete', internal tanks filled, but no fuel went into the external tanks
- Double checked and successfully refueled on a Il-78
- 'Transfer complete', internal tanks filled, but no fuel went into the external tanks
- Jettisoned the external tanks and the internal fuel instantly dropped from 3160kg to 50kg.. I had to eject


I'm extremely bad at A-10C refueling, but I gave it a try... external fuel tanks and 100% internal fuel.
During the flight only external fuel was used. When I connected to the KC-135 it instantly replied 'Transfer complete',
so I assume it has the same problem (not filling the external tanks during AAR).


Pretty confident that this is a global bug affecting all DCS modules
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