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Old 02-10-2018, 08:59 AM   #21
imacken
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Originally Posted by Svend_Dellepude View Post
Always make lead turns. AI will never reverse on you. That's a sure way of beating AI everytime, no matter the skill level.
Thanks for that.
I am trying the first combat mission in the Aggressor's Campaign. There, the opponent and I are on a head to head, then the enemy passes, gets behind and just does either crazy vertical loops, or horizontal turns that I cannot get match. We're both in a F-5 as well!
I've tried going high and gaining some energy for dropping on top, but I still cannot get a shot away.
What would a general recommended technique be to get into a lead turn situation in those circumstances?
Any help appreciated.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:30 PM   #22
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Sounds like you are starting the merge turn too late and bleeding too much energy trying to catch up. You need to think ahead and don't fly through the HUD.
AI is kind of superpowered in some regard. Ie, they can go to the edge of envelope and stay there like a fly on a dogsh*t.
But just find the timing and do your lead turns, and you will get them.
Flying the F-5 is about timing and trying to preserve energy.
Make sure you dont pull too many G's and be smooth on the stick (so to speak).
Last, forget about missiles in close-in D/F. stick to the gun. most of the time your turnradius will be too small to get a good missile shot.
Dunno if that is any help.
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:16 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svend_Dellepude View Post
Sounds like you are starting the merge turn too late and bleeding too much energy trying to catch up. You need to think ahead and don't fly through the HUD.
AI is kind of superpowered in some regard. Ie, they can go to the edge of envelope and stay there like a fly on a dogsh*t.
But just find the timing and do your lead turns, and you will get them.
Flying the F-5 is about timing and trying to preserve energy.
Make sure you dont pull too many G's and be smooth on the stick (so to speak).
Last, forget about missiles in close-in D/F. stick to the gun. most of the time your turnradius will be too small to get a good missile shot.
Dunno if that is any help.
Nice tips!
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:44 AM   #24
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OK guys, I really am on the verge of giving up with this. I obviously am doing something fundamentally wrong with the F-5 in a dogfight.
Can one of you really helpful people do a video or just a track maybe of the Instant Action air-to-air mission in Nevada against the F-14 to show me the way?
GUNS ONLY! It's easy enough to hit it with a missile.
What happens with me is that the F-14 climbs, I wait for it to drop, try to get behind it, fail, then we have an endless cat and mouse series of manoeuvres and I NEVER get a shot off at it. If I stop moving around for 2 or 3 seconds, I am immediately downed by a missile!
Aarrgghh!
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imacken View Post
OK guys, I really am on the verge of giving up with this. I obviously am doing something fundamentally wrong with the F-5 in a dogfight.
Can one of you really helpful people do a video or just a track maybe of the Instant Action air-to-air mission in Nevada against the F-14 to show me the way?
GUNS ONLY! It's easy enough to hit it with a missile.
What happens with me is that the F-14 climbs, I wait for it to drop, try to get behind it, fail, then we have an endless cat and mouse series of manoeuvres and I NEVER get a shot off at it. If I stop moving around for 2 or 3 seconds, I am immediately downed by a missile!
Aarrgghh!
I have only managed one kill against the Tomcat in countless tries but it is possible.



I made several mistakes in this engagement that the AI did not capitalize on, and it made a couple errors too that I was not in position to capitalize on either until they made a badly timed decision to extend at the very end.

Keep your energy up, that means smooth turns, only use bat turns to force an overshoot. Use the vertical to reduce turn radius and/or maintain/regain energy. If you are always in the buffet you are pulling too hard - the F-5E seems to be a finesse fighter

You start that evolution at a severe energy disadvantage against a superior opponent (as appears to be the case for most of the instant action air starts) - you will most likely be jousting, not getting and staying in position for a tracking shot, so be ready for snap shots close in as you cross paths. One circle vs two circle will help keep you in close and reduce their opportunity to get into the WEZ.

It is frustrating but recognize it is an AI that gets to use all the energy, all the time, in a superior platform, starting from a better position/energy state - it is a tough place to start.

Also, check out JambockSydy's youtube videos for the Maple Flag BFM campaign, there's some good examples in there of well timed maneuvering.

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Old 02-13-2018, 03:14 PM   #26
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Thanks for that. I'll follow up on it.
Not used TACVIEW but might try and give it a go. Just before the kill in your video you are out climbing the Tomcat. I can never manage that in that mission!
That mission starts with low energy, speed around 200, and there is no way to increase it without being blown up by a missile. Any attempts to dive a bit or turn away, or any kind of manoeuvre to try to gain some speed results in the same outcome EVERY time for me, i.e. beep-beep-boom - I'm dead!
Most of the time, I am getting almost no response from the roll axis. I can be full stick left or right, and the F-5 doesn't move. I know I should be using less stick, but doing that ends up in the beep-beep-boom scenario within a few seconds!
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by imacken View Post
Thanks for that. I'll follow up on it.
Not used TACVIEW but might try and give it a go. Just before the kill in your video you are out climbing the Tomcat. I can never manage that in that mission!
That mission starts with low energy, speed around 200, and there is no way to increase it without being blown up by a missile. Any attempts to dive a bit or turn away, or any kind of manoeuvre to try to gain some speed results in the same outcome EVERY time for me, i.e. beep-beep-boom - I'm dead!
Most of the time, I am getting almost no response from the roll axis. I can be full stick left or right, and the F-5 doesn't move. I know I should be using less stick, but doing that ends up in the beep-beep-boom scenario within a few seconds!
When you can't get any roll you are basically stalled (can still get some pitch responsiveness but the wing is effectively stalled), unload the back stick and try using your feet (rudder) - also, don't forget to use the aileron limiter function, it almost doubles your stick throw which can help in those stall/near stall conditions - it should be bound to a stick button.

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Old 02-13-2018, 04:10 PM   #28
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IMHO, in that video you were outplayed by F-14 from the start, and you only got kill because the AI let you in the end as it didn't anymore try to maneuver.

You were doing leading turns, against fastest turning western fighter, that can even have tighter turn radius than other teen fighters. And you were not ready to get the kill in the first moment, what gave upper hand for AI.

Get behind, stay behind and don't play their game. You can always extend, you can always slow yourself down and still maintain high speed relative to them so you have energy to get back to behind.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:34 PM   #29
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Get behind, stay behind and don't play their game. You can always extend, you can always slow yourself down and still maintain high speed relative to them so you have energy to get back to behind.
With all due respect, I think we all know that. It’s how to achieve it that we need to know!
Have to tried that mission? Please tell how to get some energy going with being blown away by a missile!
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
IMHO, in that video you were outplayed by F-14 from the start, and you only got kill because the AI let you in the end as it didn't anymore try to maneuver.

You were doing leading turns, against fastest turning western fighter, that can even have tighter turn radius than other teen fighters. And you were not ready to get the kill in the first moment, what gave upper hand for AI.

Get behind, stay behind and don't play their game. You can always extend, you can always slow yourself down and still maintain high speed relative to them so you have energy to get back to behind.
Respectfully disagree.

We both made mistakes and we both missed opportunities but had the F-14 outplayed me the result would have been my death, in 2-5 turns, as it admittedly usually is, a lot, in that particular engagement.

In fairness, I have figured out that my instinct results in more two-circle engagements which is even worse against a better turning/more powerful opponent - thanks TacView! It's all about learning how to employ the weapon system you have available.

We all know the Tomcat was an extremely capable fighter, we all know it has better sustained turn, high-alpha, and specific excess power than the Tiger. And we all know that that engagement puts the Tiger at an EXTREME disadvantage from the very beginning.

Please post up your evidence of you just getting behind and staying behind the fastest turning western fighter, from that instant action engagement - just to show us all how it is done, I am always looking for examples I can learn from.

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