in development Vulkan API Discussion

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Haha! I see the misunderstanding. We're talkin about DCS, not fruit.

MAC = Modern Air Combat, AKA FC4.

The one time I try to be inclusive

So, any news on this? Is this coming in 2022? (Or any kind of engine update for that matter? Multithreaded support etc.)

52 minutes ago, nukeproof said:

By scripting issues, do we include in that the paramount loss in performance cause by in and/or out of sight ground objects' AI? That's definitely something to look at because by itself it's the single biggest hit in frame time.

its honestly to hard to speculate, but yes.

On 8/30/2022 at 10:35 AM, Lurker said:

So, any news on this? Is this coming in 2022? (Or any kind of engine update for that matter? Multithreaded support etc.)

 

... Some news? 

2 minutes ago, linside said:

... Some news? 

The other day NineLine said multicore is in internal testing at the moment, and ED have stated previously Vulkan will come after Multicore.

As Stated Previously,

When there is news to share it will be shared,

Simply asking for updates isn't going to do anything.

3 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

As Stated Previously,

When there is news to share it will be shared,

Simply asking for updates isn't going to do anything.

Asking is lawful and answering is courtesy.

On 9/11/2022 at 5:07 PM, SkateZilla said:

As Stated Previously,

When there is news to share it will be shared,

Simply asking for updates isn't going to do anything.

It can build sometimes a bit pressure and speed up processes. Even in Software developement.
A lot cool stuff is announced but the DCS Plattform still feels and perform like a unfinished Demo.  

9 minutes ago, Ulukai said:

It can build sometimes a bit pressure and speed up processes. Even in Software developement.

not really... either the devs are well intentioned, in which case they are already trying their best, and it will be here as quickly as they can make it happen with the resources available. Or they aren't in which case they will ignore you; in either case the outcome is the same... 

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

not really... either the devs are well intentioned, in which case they are already trying their best, and it will be here as quickly as they can make it happen with the resources available. Or they aren't in which case they will ignore you; in either case the outcome is the same... 

not really... somewhere above the software devs, there is a manager who is responsible for prioritizing resources according to the company strategy. A bit of pressure from the consumer can always help influence a few decision here and there.

51 minutes ago, tomcat_driver said:

not really... somewhere above the software devs, there is a manager who is responsible for prioritizing resources according to the company strategy. A bit of pressure from the consumer can always help influence a few decision here and there.

 

Except in this case it literally CAN'T. This isn't Electronic Arts, or Activision, and even if it were and Eagly Dynamics could literally throw millions of dollars and hundreds of developers at the problem (which they can't) this isn't a problem that can be solved in that way.

The software is too complex, and the engine is too old. 

But I do agree that more transparency and better communication with the customers is always a good thing. Even if the answer is one that we won't like. 

49 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Work is going well for multithreading and vulkan

That's very good news! Thank you!

7 hours ago, Ulukai said:

It can build sometimes a bit pressure and speed up processes. Even in Software developement.
A lot cool stuff is announced but the DCS Plattform still feels and perform like a unfinished Demo.  

Not a good reason, putting even more pressure on a studio, Look at how well that turned out for 343 Studios.

Halo Infinite was delayed for a reason, it wasnt ready, then the public outcry, they rushed it, and after the whoo hooo new halo game feeling wore off,
it was a steaming pile of alien guts in a fancy wrapper.

They keep rushing patches to try and fix it and they keep announcing features being removed because they cant fix it without a massive re-write,
And it ultimately led to several high level people being replaced, and MS is now considering cutting ties with the entire studio.

And that's just a recent example, there are plenty of examples of studios rushing software out the door before it's ready due to public outcry of not having it.

ED themselves in the past pushed a few modules into Early Access before there were ready, and I highly doubt that mistake would ever happen again.

The cost of going back and re-writing something because it was rushed is often more than simply taking time and doing it right the first time.

Wow guys, calm down. First I/We didnt pressure anyone. I just give a different perspective. Im one single consumer.  Im just a consumer who is interestet in the the topic Performance optimization. I read a bit here and saw unhappy consumers and some people who use energy to defend ED by all costs. ( I think the internet call it: "Keyboard justice")

Sorry for the critics but: BIGNEWYs Answers don't help me really. Don't understand me wrong: You react to the Community. That is a good thing, but the answers sounds like a politician or bot.   (Say something but don't transport Information)
For example developers from "Periscope Games" explaned in the past what they have done and were is the challenge with examples. It were very interesting Potcasts/Developmentprocess livestreams.  (Just an example for contemporary work in Gaming Communities).

I may can speak for some of us, when not most of us:

We are just interestet if the work is going well. And sometimes what cool stuff they doing (because yeah suprise it's interesting). But if fanboys or Beta Testers complaining and defending about every single question, than we don't need a forum here.

The Topic here is Vulkan and Performance not how triple AAA Gaming Companies crash there business in the past.
Maybe we use the Topic here to give and find some infos, if we will be able to play DCS with a High resolution VR Headset or Monitor, on our super expensive rtx3080s in moderate graphics, and useful visual range and frames? (The World will Call you: "The Half-Life Alyx of Flight Combat Games")

If you guys have some News about this topic I will spend time to read it. But if not, than please don't waste your valuable time to try to answer off topic or give me advices I dont ask for. I will simply not read it.

Fly safe!


 

vor 18 Stunden schrieb BIGNEWY:

Project managers are in the best place to assign the resources to the team and they have been. Work is going well for multithreading and vulkan,  when we are ready we will share more news. 

 

I have a suggestion helping being transparent about the state of the development:

You provide a statubar going from 0 to 100 showing the current state of completion, BUT: When something goes wrong or is getting more complex then planned you move the bar BACKWARDS too. Then you have a understandable and easy to maintain option to show us the current state. Based on weeks or months - depending on your developmentstyle(scrum? :)) you give an update.

19 hours ago, tomcat_driver said:

A bit of pressure from the consumer can always help influence a few decision here and there.

29 minutes ago, Ulukai said:

Wow guys, calm down. First I/We didnt pressure anyone. 

... Really...

33 minutes ago, Ulukai said:

 

Sorry for the critics but: BIGNEWYs Answers don't help me really.

We are just interestet if the work is going well.
 

That's seems reasonable...except BN said...

18 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Work is going well for multithreading and vulkan,  when we are ready we will share more news. 

So... That's not good enough... ?

 We are not project managers of this work.  If Ed provides a gant chart, with progress, and it goes backwards someone is going to ask why... And it will generate additional work and noise.

I think ED's approach is right on here, they literally can't win. 

(my constructive contribution to this thread )

vor 1 Minute schrieb sirrah:

A bit offtopic, but this reminds me of a real happening:
"you must not ask 'are we there yet' before it´s dark outside" - "ok, when will it be dark?"

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Sorry you feel that way, but not liking my answer isnt going to change the fact that the work is in progress and when we are ready to share more news we will. 

There seems to be some here on the forum who keep asking the same question and expecting a different answer, and that is not going to happen. 

Thanks

Hi BIGNEWY,

no need for sorry. If you don't have more Information, than you don't have. I wouldn't say that I didnt like you answer. And its not about good or bad. I just mean, I don't put any information out of it. And people react a bit sensitive here.

Speed-of-heat:
You are a member of the ED Team?   "...We are not project managers of this work.  If Ed provides..." 
Maybe a Multithreating or Vulkan specialist who can explain me a bit?   Would be cool.

Btw: I didnt ask for the current status It was another one.
 

regards and "Are we there yet?" 

13 minutes ago, Ulukai said:

Speed-of-heat:
You are a member of the ED Team?   "...We are not project managers of this work.  If Ed provides..." 

No. I was pretty clear on that when i used the word "We"... ignored.

@tomcat_driver, @Ulukai Mind you, it's not about defending ED by "white knights" here, or attacking you at all. It's just - you guys are relatively new here, while many of us have been active for years and just know how ED handles communication with its customers. It does it, let's say, different than other companies, and not exactly in a "better" different kind of way. But that's just the way things are here and no amount of feedback from the customers will change it it seems. BigNewy shares info when he can, and since he usually can't, well, so be it.

Time and information flow different here ;). If you dont get discouraged by it in the first year, you will get used to it eventually.

Guys, calm down, we have to wait one more month to be able to celebrate the first birthday the one-and-only "Multicore - Development report" to date.

In the last year I became patient. But I have high hopes that until this 15th October date we'll have at least one similar (or more datailed) status report on these topics.

I'm not even aiming for the deployment, just a report. We'll see. 

On 9/16/2022 at 6:35 PM, Art-J said:

@tomcat_driver, @Ulukai Mind you, it's not about defending ED by "white knights" here, or attacking you at all. It's just - you guys are relatively new here, while many of us have been active for years and just know how ED handles communication with its customers. It does it, let's say, different than other companies, and not exactly in a "better" different kind of way. But that's just the way things are here and no amount of feedback from the customers will change it it seems. BigNewy shares info when he can, and since he usually can't, well, so be it.

Time and information flow different here ;). If you dont get discouraged by it in the first year, you will get used to it eventually.

I think everybody can understand and agree that things here work differently, but sometimes it gets to a point where things are ultimately questionable and, quite frankly, sometimes borderline distasteful.

Development on Vulkan engine for performance improvements was (AFAIK) announced nearly five years ago (in 28 November 2017).

Five years.
During this time period, performance hasn't improved, it actually has become even worse.

Noone asked for 2.7 higher performance impact, when 2.5 was already severe enough on hardware.
For those unwilling to accept it, there used to be 1.58 and 2.56 (legacy) versions available. They're gone. But even if available... great, if using that, then I'm blocked from the updates for the modules that I've paid for, and noone to play online...
And I don't care about the few people defending ED with "I play fine on 2.7 with six plus year old hardware", because that's just having far lower standards and accepting mediocre performance.
Paying customers, who have thrown quite significant ammounts into this flight/combat simulation, are forced to throw even bigger ammounts into hardware just to keep up with increasing resource demands, to get updates on purchased modules and play with others online. It's just not right. 

Meanwhile, five years on, little to absolutely no news on the Vulkan subject, while we keep having announcements upon announcements on new modules... which may (or not) have even bigger impact on performance than those that we currently have (did anyone even stop to think about this possibility?).

I think my point here is, the lack of perspective and the desproportion on how different areas seem to be focused on (IMO). 
Talking to people online, reading this and other forums, what I get is that there seems to be far more interest in "a better DCS" rather than in "more content in DCS".

Performance improvements on DCS should be the #1 priority, and sharing info on Vulkan development - no matter how small those news would be - would go a long way, and maybe should be considered as important as the constant "WIP" screens on new fancy announced modules (taking years to see a release) that are pumped weekly.