Index and Oculus S owners advice requested please.

Good afternoon gents and ladies, I’m having a bit of a dilemma at the moment that I was hoping to get a little advice/help with.

I have an oculus cv1 which I really love but I think it’s time to upgrade.

Originally I was deadest on getting an index as the specs are pretty impressive and one of the important factors is that I want to be able to read all the dials in the cockpit without having to either zoom and lean forward and with the resolution it has it looks like that would definitely be the case. Not to mention the overall increase in clarity, and also the knuckles looks incredible for all my other games.

But being from Australia getting an Index is looking to be a real pain. Best case late September, worst case who bloody knows. And the price will no doubt be ridiculous.

So I’ve been checking out the Oculus S as from what I’ve read it’s actually a pretty significant upgrade to the CV1 especially for flight sims, the price is a lot more in reasonable and of course I don’t have to wait to get one. I’ve read that all the dials in list cockpits are readable and that overall it’s quite a nice upgrade visually.

Another factor is from what I’ve read the jump from the CV1 to the S is much bigger than what the jump from an S to an Index would be, so would waiting months to get my hands on an Index and paying a very high premium really be worth it?

For me Flight sims are my main reason for having VR, so the improvements there are main consideration, that said I do have other VR games that I do play and love so I don’t want those to suffer from the upgrade if possible (inside out tracking apparently not being as good as separate sensors being the main problem)

If anyone had an experience with both or even just either of them I would love to hear how the upgrade has gone, how’s the improvement in clarity? I know that the Index will be overall a better upgrade but is it THAT much better than an S to warrant the wait and high price?

Either way it’s pretty fantastic problem to have and I’m pretty damn happy that 8 can finally feel like I’m flying these Aircraft from inside their cockpits.

Much thanks in advance.

Yes, the Rift S is significant upgrade over CV1 for flightsims. As long as your IPD is within the limits. The hardware is plug&play, it couldn't have been simpler for the current CV1 owners.

Is the Index better than Rift S? Sure. Is it 2.5 times better as the price difference suggests? Nope.

I went from Rift CV1 to Rift S and am very pleased.

It was better than I expected.

Same as dburne. I went from CV1 to the Oculus S and am very happy with the upgrade.

I see no issues with tracking. Get yourself some nice quality earbuds and you are good to go.

I know nothing about the Index and I really don't care lol

So nothing to offer there.

The Index is better and more versatile, cost aside. But...if you are upgrading from the Rift and don’t need extra features (finger tracking, variable screen refresh rate, physical IPD adjustment, audio, wider FOV) then the Rift S is a solid choice. If you came an existing Vive system then Index would’ve been a better buy.

You should probably look at the HP Reverb also since it has the highest resolution of them all. The first batch is known to have cable issue and people have been sending theirs back to HP—the second batch which will be releasing in a month or so will hopefully have no issue.

Hi, Index owner here... Index will still force you to lean a wee bit to read the colour map on the HSI of a F18... Oh how I hated that thing with a passion in the Vive... Turning it off was a part of my startup procedure :D. But you can definitely read that without VR zoom now.

But, that aside, the improvement is massive. You can read everything on the side panels, hud is clear as day. I still need to attempt carrier landing to judge how the ball is.

Also, according to guys on the other thread, spotting is improved because of higher pixel fill. Index has its issues though, glare and godrays, although tbh didn't see much of it in DCS. It is also helluva comfortable and the off-ear speakers are simply amazing. If however you need to pay additional 'Stralia tax, it might be better to get a Rift S, especially that you don't have lighthouses. The whole package at extra price could be a disappointment.

Yeah the audio on the Index looks incredible, I have good headphones but if I can cut away one step from my setting up to fly process that would be a nice bonus. But if I still need em or some good quality ear buds that’s fine, why Oculus went with that horrid audio solution is beyond me.

I was looking at the reverb as a sim only headset and keep the CV1 for my more normal VR games but yet again being in Australia it’s not available and it’d be getting up towards a thousand dollars, which is a bit much for a one purpose handset, and I’d probably need to upgrade my 1080 to something with a bit more grunt to handle the resolution, although I’m getting a 2080 super with my tax return so that’s not a huge problem.

My IPD is 66 on the CV1 so I don’t think I’d have a problem with the lack of physical ipd adjustment on the S and the ease of set-up is nice although I don’t really mind a bit messing around to get things running properly initially.

It sounds like the clarity increase on the S from the CV1 is more than most people were expecting, myself included, and that’s my main consideration if I’m being honest, I love VR but a perceivable increase in the clarity and look of the sim would be amazing after spending a few years in the relatively low res world of CV1.

The S is looking better and better to be honest, and even if i upgrade to an Index in a year or two so I can enjoy those excellent looking controllers and another small bump in clarity that’s not a bad way to go.

what earbuds everyone running in VR? Couldnt find any that were really good long term as connection was always patchy, so went back to full headphones. Any suggestions?

what earbuds everyone running in VR? Couldnt find any that were really good long term as connection was always patchy, so went back to full headphones. Any suggestions?

I am using the Klipsch R6 II earbuds with my Rift S, and the sound is awesome.

Very pleased with it.

what earbuds everyone running in VR? Couldnt find any that were really good long term as connection was always patchy, so went back to full headphones. Any suggestions?

Steel Series Arctic 7 - Absolutely brilliant sound quality for games, clear microphone that neatly pushes away and also multi use - can be used with phone / etc on flights - earphones phone flat.

As for going for Rift S - i was the same as you in some ways on whether to go for the index. I went of the Rift S more because of software integration and heard some horror stories of other systems. I was really pleased with the jump in visual quality - it is night and day compared to the CV1 in terms of reading txt / dials etc. I find myself not having to VR zoom now to read the cockpit / MFD's. The screen door is much much less, thus also increasing immersion further.

Visual acquisition of targets both ground and air also big improvement. I play on a very competitive server and this has helped no end in terms of being able to ID earlier.

I also prefer the fit of the Rift S , obviously personal choice but i like the fact can release pressure easily or use to the button to bring it right in. Inside out view also helpful if want to reach for a drink without taking off the rift etc.

Its a no brainer, especially at the price point. My friend brought a Vive Pro for £1000 UK only a few months ago and to be honest i cannot tell the difference in resolution, if anything i prefer the rift fit, visuals parity.

Lastly i was also dubious despite having a decent system of FPS hit with the Index, with the rift its hardly made a difference (iv'e not had to alter or reduce my graphics to still be getting 40FPS -which is smooth).

Yeah the headband looks a bit odd but I've heard it's actually very comfortable when it's on. I'm sure i can live with it. Once I'm in the cockpit i tend to kinda forget about all that stuff anyway.

I was a bit worried about the fps hit with the index too but from what I hear the Rift S is pretty much same performance and I'm sure they'll figure out ways to improve that further, both in Oculus and with DCS working on the VR performance a fair bit of late.

What about the narrower fov I've read about, is it noticeable for does it appear largely the same as CV1?

Rift S on trial

I bought Rift S this weekend, and have 30 days time to bring it back :).

BUY it. Its a definite upgrade compared to my >=3yrs old HTC Vive.

Using the F-18C as reference

- Reading instrument labels black/white readbale without zoom.

- The MFD map one can read the texts, thoug i occasionaly do zoom.

- Green/black MFDs clearly visible.

- HUD is clear as day.

- Sound is tinny but after a few minutes, binaural surround compensates. No need for earbuds.

- Spotting ground tanks/vehicles in a Su-25 from >=3,500 is visible. FINALLY!!

- Inside out tracking works flawless.

- Only 2 wires to connect, easy setup, and all my Vive Steam VR titles works great.

- Bonus: Readily available in retail stores. No wait time, unlike Reverb, Index etc.

Compared to HTC Vive.. the Rift S is in all respects an improvement. Except half ass sound.

I used my Vive 4x per week for >=3yrs, same with the Rift S now

At €450 hell yeaa. You wont go wrong.

I'd like to try an Index but for now, its unavailable vaporwhere.

what earbuds everyone running in VR? Couldnt find any that were really good long term as connection was always patchy, so went back to full headphones. Any suggestions?

Some people recommend this PSVR headphones. Haven't tried personally, but you can check on YouTube how they fit on Rift S.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bionik-Mantis-Headphone-PlayStation-VR/dp/B0735X5M4X

Already had a Sony noise cancelling expensive pair at $80 I bought for air travel. I attached them to the Rift S (wrapped around out of the way) so no cords to fool with. Sounds great and no big deal to use.

Any quality ear buds should work well.

OP-

I won't recommend a headset, but rather diligence, or a change in approach. There are like 3 people in this thread qualified to respond (have used both), most are rift s owners defending their value minded purchase. Supmua, the other guy, (and maybe another, I admit I kinda skimmed it)

I was a VR early adopter, and have owned or spent at least 20 hours in rift, rift s, vive, vive pro, pimax 5k, odyssey + and Index. I tried some other garbage WMR but that doesn't count. I unfortunately have not had the opportunity to try a reverb. I was fortunate enough to receive a tech demo of a VR-1 but it was not with controllers much less DCS. I seriously considered buying one, but had concerns about compatibility and support. Regardless, in that time I have learned a couple things.

Frist - Stats will help you understand a headset: https://i.redd.it/xuia1ap36pa31.png

Second - Stats will only help you understand the basics of the headset, and that the overall experience is not merely the sum of its parts. For some headsets this nets positive, for others negative.

Third - 90% of people online are just justifying their decision, and crapping on other people's stuff. VR is weird this way. Compare flightsticks, sooner or later most serious simmers end up with VKB/Virpil/Realsim - yet, people with Warthogs don't shit on FSSB R3 lightings as overpriced, and vice versa. But VR? hostility everywhere.

Fourth - Your value proposition, willingness to deal with inconvenience of leading edge tech, budget, PC specs, corporate ethics and how you feel about open vs. closed ecosystems, and how you could otherwise use extra money will greatly effect your decision. Everyone's value proposition is different, asking which is best or whether X is enough better than Y to justify price is useless. It's like asking if a Ferrari is worth 8x the cost of a Camry. The answer is very different if you are driving to soccer practice, or hauling ass through twisties and trying to skeez chicks half your age with $20M in the bank.

Seek out unbiased sources, Ars, uploadvr, etc., think about your PM specs (with a 2080ti and 9900k I struggle to push an index at the level I want), what you want to spend total, and what you want to spend that money on. Think about whether you are better off with a rift s and upgraded stick, or maybe you have a great stick and money isn't a big concern thus Index is the clear favorite?

But no matter what, don't take recommendations blindly. Definitely not here, definitely not hoggit. Most opinions here have no basis in fact, you will not see my criticize a Reverb because I have not tried one. You will not find that to be a common approach.

Another poster and I recently wasted a couple hours of our lives debating the stick feel of an aircraft we had a couple thousand combined flight hours in against somebody that I later became convinced was completely full of BS and had never flown anything that wasn't simulated. Point is, people are full of shit, but its hard to tell who's who. Given the cost of these devices, you should your own research and consider your personal circumstances. Unbiased information is out there. Ideally, find a friend and try them. If you can't, some headsets are much easier to get and much more returnable than others (I had a rift S for almost 30-days waiting on Index and Amazon took it back no questions asked).

Also upgraded from CV1 to Rift S - big improvement in resolution, clarity and god rays etc, as per others observations above. FOV about the same as CV1 - but FOV has never really bothered me - I just wanted better res.

It cost $NZ700 with free delivery to New Zealand that only took a few days from Hong Kong, and was able to sell my old CV1 in 2 days on TradeMe for NZ$450+shipping....so a cost effective upgrade also!

One thing I will say - upgrade your motherboard bios to latest version! Massive improvement for me doing that.

For ear buds I am using the wired Bose SoundSport in-ear headphones as I use the wireless version at the gym etc. and they fit really well and the little rubber tab things keep them in your ears perfectly (so good for moving your head around in VR if the cable pulls a little), super cheap at the moment (as everyone is going wireless), very comfortable and the sound is great.

https://www.amazon.com/Bose-SoundSport-ear-headphones-741776-0040/dp/B0117RFOEG?th=1

Cheers Skootch, i definitely have done a whole tonne of reading about the differences between the headsets, i would definitely prefer the Index, as an overall package it seems more like what i want out of my next vr headset.

But the long wait and the very high price makes it a bit of a problem. Being in Australia is strangely restrictive as far as getting things here, no idea why, it's not like it's a third world country.

Also I wanted a flight sim specific opinion as there's not a whole bunch out there for that, some definitely but some more is better better especially if it's DCS specific.

From everything I've read, I think the S is the way to go for now, with a plan to maybe upgrade to an index somewhere down the line, but I'll see how happy I am with the S.

I think I'll be happy with the upgrade from everything I've read and watched about it.

I definitely wish that this next gen of headsets was more of a jump but it is what it is I guess. We're still in the infancy of VR so there's gunna be compromises.

To be honest I'm just glad they were living in the age of VR in flight sims.

It's such a game changer for sim type experiences

For me the Index is a game changer for sims in VR, especially the higher vertical FOV combined with edge to edge image clarity makes flying and driving more natural in VR. You can now look straight through the windshield or HUD and to read gauges/instruments you just look down without the need to tilt your head, very convenient and well... natural like IRL.

Cheers Skootch, i definitely have done a whole tonne of reading about the differences between the headsets, i would definitely prefer the Index, as an overall package it seems more like what i want out of my next vr headset.

 

But the long wait and the very high price makes it a bit of a problem. Being in Australia is strangely restrictive as far as getting things here, no idea why, it's not like it's a third world country.

 

Also I wanted a flight sim specific opinion as there's not a whole bunch out there for that, some definitely but some more is better better especially if it's DCS specific.

 

From everything I've read, I think the S is the way to go for now, with a plan to maybe upgrade to an index somewhere down the line, but I'll see how happy I am with the S.

I think I'll be happy with the upgrade from everything I've read and watched about it.

I definitely wish that this next gen of headsets was more of a jump but it is what it is I guess. We're still in the infancy of VR so there's gunna be compromises.

 

To be honest I'm just glad they were living in the age of VR in flight sims.

It's such a game changer for sim type experiences

Hi Skarden,

That is a reasonable approach, I used a rift S for a while, it's not a bad headset if you are its target market. The distribution and availability issues are an issue as well. Overall it seems a reasonable approach.

That said, I did not mean to understate the step forward of these high end current gen. As in a real plane, where I quickly glance at instruments and keep my head up as much as possible, in an index you can read airspeed clearly in an f14 while your head is up, dogfighting. That seemingly small change, that required substantial increase in FOV and edge to edge clarity, is literally game changing. I fly the ball... In a Hornet, every letter of text on the mfds are clearly and quickly readable without zooming (the only exception being occasional text without enough contrast to resolve against he moving map).

As I mentioned I haven't yet tried a Reverb, which if availability and price were an issue for me I would seriously consider if I had the PC specs to drive it. I don't believe they are as hard to get. I've also not seriously considered a VR-1, though I did almost purchase one, the Varjo guys actually talked me out of it (its commercial only, but was buy through my company). The latter isn't practical, but the reverb is. Again, I have not personally used it, so I cannot say for sure.

My personal feelings about facebook notwithstanding, just make sure you understand what Rift S is. My encouraging you to do independent research and escape the fanboyism that can dominate these threads assumed you would do the research. Rift S is a fine headset, but you last post gave the impression that Rift S is representative of the higher end headsets of this generation. If I gave you that impression, I didn't mean to do so. It is a good product for the right user, just make sure you are that user.

The Index was definitely what I had my heart set on after all the reading/watching and general research i did about the current bunch of headsets, obviously teh resolution is a big plus but those controllers look incredible and while not a lot of games making much use of em right now, that'll change in the future.

From the sounds of it light house 2.0 is flawless as far as tracking goes, the inside out of the S is very good apparently, especially with the new update but i don't thinks its flawless,at least not in regards to controller tracking.

Again It's just that ridiculous wait/price that we have in Australia, I was checking out ebay and most sets are sitting around the $2200 mark, it's just too muc, which is super frustrating.

So the S looks to be an excellent compromise for now, but I'll keeping a close eye on the index price/availability in Australia and getting ready to part with one of my lungs when the moment is right.

The Index was definitely what I had my heart set on after all the reading/watching and general research i did about the current bunch of headsets, obviously teh resolution is a big plus but those controllers look incredible and while not a lot of games making much use of em right now, that'll change in the future.

 

From the sounds of it light house 2.0 is flawless as far as tracking goes, the inside out of the S is very good apparently, especially with the new update but i don't thinks its flawless,at least not in regards to controller tracking.

 

Again It's just that ridiculous wait/price that we have in Australia, I was checking out ebay and most sets are sitting around the $2200 mark, it's just too muc, which is super frustrating.

 

So the S looks to be an excellent compromise for now, but I'll keeping a close eye on the index price/availability in Australia and getting ready to part with one of my lungs when the moment is right.

I agree, at that price I would not purchase one either. To be honest, I like the controllers, and I think support will improve. But, while I found myself buying everything on steam the first few days, most of the time I still sit down and fly.... only using the controllers to bring up steamer menus. Gore and swords and sorcery or whatever are fun with the ability to change grip strength, and the precision in shooting games is remarkable. But again, most of the time I fly

My biggest frustration with VR is general is the premature jump to inside out. It’s just not nearly as good, the utility is obvious, and the industry will end up there eventually, but would have been great if they had the ability to operate in parallel or something. Perhaps inside out capable, but improved when at home with a couple LH. It’s just so much better.

The setup argument is nonsense. The new LH turn on and off via Bluetooth signal, and just plug into the wall. Setup is like 5 clicks- point at monitor, pull trigger; put on floor, click ok, walk around room holding trigger, click ok. Done. I’ll trade that 20 seconds of my life for sub millimeter accuracy. They do add to cost though.

You forgot to count the time needed to set up the lighthouses for the first time. Not everyone has a room where it's possible to just drop them on a stand near the power outlet. Of course the LH system is still a bit better in that regard than the original rift cameras.

I don't think the move to inside out was premature. Maybe for some specific games, but flightsims are not in the affected group.

Anyway, the Rift S is a very good inertim solution. Selling the CV1 and buying Rift S, total cost of the upgrade for me was around 200 Euro. That's very little for a big bump in clarity without performance penalty in DCS. And I've had the headset for 2 months already, while people are still in the waiting line for their Indexes and Reverbs.

had rift s, and returned due to tracking (which was later fixed)

i have the index, but the rift s was way more comfortable.

index visual tiny bit better, but not by a long shot when comparing $$$.

u should try before you buy, everyone is different.

i plan to get rift s again, it was just easier to use, i love the touch.