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F16 joystick/HOTAS discussion


DeltaMike

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Out of curiosity, what makes VKB or Virpil better than TM on a quality level? I have a TM Cougar setup and do not own any VKB or Virpil products. Looking for an honest comparison of: quality of construction, materials used, fit/finish, and software if applicable. If I am going to dump $300 plus on a stick/throttle combo, I want the best. Thank you in advance.

Besides the other fellows replies, I 'd like to add a video that, IMHO, gives a very good idea of the differences between the two in terms of quality approach , materials and adjustments capabilities:

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Maybe TM will start selling Cougar parts again since the F-16 is being released by DCS. I need new gimbals for my stick but TM said they no longer support spare parts for the Cougar since it's a legacy product. My throttle still works though. Do I have to get the Realsimulator USB adapter or will any gameport to USB adapter work?

 

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the micro-stick drifting. I bought the Realsim R2 and that has great software to allow you to set the deadzone. Without that you could be watching your radar cursor move all over the screen. Makes things difficult when trying to lock up targets.

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It's nice but it won't be cheap. The Warthog is already an F-16 stick. I see no reason to change it.

 

Warthog has a tendency to break though, when used with a force sensing mod, as many have documented. The realsim one, has eliminated this weakness.


Edited by Tazman
Wrong verb tense
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Warthog had a tendency to break though, when used with a force sensing mod, as many have documented. The realsim one, has eliminated this weakness.

 

Yes, with force sensing it has a problem, but it was never designed to do that. Shapeway makes the part that breaks. I'm not sure it will hold up to force sensing?

 

The problem with force sensing is it's a commitment to the Viper. I also like the P-51 and it wouldn't work well for that.

Buzz

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I've been using my Warthog grip with FSSB R3 lighting base as my main for almost 2 years now, nothing is breaking as far as I'm concerned and it remains my favorite combination of stick and base.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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So, I've also made a post in the PC hardware section about a HOTAS, but I figured I'd talk to you folks here as well since you probably didn't see the other one.

 

Hi folks! I gotta admit, this F-16C module they're working on has me more excited for DCS in a long time. I was an avid Falcon 4.0 pilot back in the day, back when the Cougar HOTAS came out. I had a huuuuuuge desire for one of those but never got one - mostly due to the cost.

 

Now we have this module coming out and I want to get a HOTAS. Here's the problem.

 

I don't like rudder pedals.

 

lol If I did, I'd probably save up for the Warthog HOTAS and get some pedals, but I've grown to love the twist rudder. It's so much more convenient and takes up a lot less space.

 

To that end, it looks like my only real option is the Logitech X56 HOTAS. The few reviews I can find about it say that it's lacking in build quality - and I want something that's durable.

 

So, do you folks know of any boutique builders of HOTAS or something similar that has a rotational axis built in?

 

Any input is helpful!

 

In that thread, someone suggested a 160000M with a Virpil throttle to obtain my twist rudder desire.

 

Is there a way to mod a Cougar to have the twist axis?

 

Appreciate your folks help!

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So, I've also made a post in the PC hardware section about a HOTAS, but I figured I'd talk to you folks here as well since you probably didn't see the other one.

 

 

 

In that thread, someone suggested a 160000M with a Virpil throttle to obtain my twist rudder desire.

 

Is there a way to mod a Cougar to have the twist axis?

 

Appreciate your folks help!

 

I'm not sure if you can mod the cougar for twist. Maybe with the right base?

Instead of the X56 you could try to find an X65F, it has force + twist. The joystick doesn't move at all though. Just through pressure. Takes a bit to get used to but is very precise.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I'm very much interested in this. Video shows it has yaw control! :D

 

Wonder what the price will be?...

 

Way more than a Warthog and a set of good rudder pedals.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Primary Computer

ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5.

 

-={TAC}=-DCS Server

Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.

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I'm very much interested in this. Video shows it has yaw control! :D

 

Wonder what the price will be?...

 

You're better off just getting a Warthog tbh.

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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Yikes - seriously?? The Warthog combo is $500 and pedals another $150ish.

 

UH Yeah...the Realsimulators BASE is over 500.00...No stick...just the base. I'm not even gonna guess what the stick and base will cost and you still dont have a throttle.

 

Ya need to do some shopping around.

 

Current Amazon price fro a Warthog HOTAS:

https://www.amazon.com/ThrustMaster-2960720-Thrustmaster-Hotas-Warthog/dp/B00371R8P4?th=1

 

 

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16826280072

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Primary Computer

ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5.

 

-={TAC}=-DCS Server

Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.

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UH Yeah...the Realsimulators BASE is over 500.00...No stick...just the base. I'm not even gonna guess what the stick and base will cost and you still dont have a throttle.

 

Ya need to do some shopping around.

 

Current Amazon price fro a Warthog HOTAS:

https://www.amazon.com/ThrustMaster-2960720-Thrustmaster-Hotas-Warthog/dp/B00371R8P4?th=1

 

 

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16826280072

 

Nice to see it's a bit more affordable than I originally thought - though I think I'd rather have a Cougar (since I never got the chance to get one when I was younger). Too bad they're next to impossible to find and apparently need work to keep going after all these years.

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Nice to see it's a bit more affordable than I originally thought - though I think I'd rather have a Cougar (since I never got the chance to get one when I was younger). Too bad they're next to impossible to find and apparently need work to keep going after all these years.

 

The only real "work" needed is to upgrade the electronics which is inexpensive and painless...Like 5-10 minutes work.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Watch eBay for Cougars...

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Primary Computer

ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5.

 

-={TAC}=-DCS Server

Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.

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The only real "work" needed is to upgrade the electronics which is inexpensive and painless...Like 5-10 minutes work.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Watch eBay for Cougars...

 

The microstick has an issue with drift. I use the warthog stick so I bought the T.U.S.B.A R2 USB adapter to be able to use the Cougar throttle. It has a better calibration routine and allows for adjustment of the dead zone too.

ASUS Strix Z370-E, i7 8700k @ 5 GHz, ASUS Strix GTX 1080 TI, 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws V DDR4 3200 MHz, Corsair H100i, WD 1TB SSD

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Nice to see it's a bit more affordable than I originally thought - though I think I'd rather have a Cougar (since I never got the chance to get one when I was younger). Too bad they're next to impossible to find and apparently need work to keep going after all these years.

 

 

If your looking for other joysticks as well, there's -

 

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/

 

 

https://virpil.com/en/

 

 

A little more expensive than the Warthog, but very nice joysticks.

 

 

Also good if your looking for something "exotic" (Virpil) or more "Mig" style.

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Does the FCC3 mod for the Cougar enable twist-rudder control?

 

"FCC3

FORCE CONTROLLED COUGAR 3

The FCC-3 is the follow up of the FCC2, a force controlled modification for the Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar.

Force Controlled means that the amount of movement of the plain in the sim is no longer dependant of the displacement of the stick,

but becomes dependant of the amount of force that is applied to the stick.

 

The amount of force, necessary to give full yaw or rudder is adjustable with the axis settings in Foxy and CCP."

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