Speed over terrain slower in VR...

Been noticing something odd when flying any modern jets in DCS... When I'm low level there isn't a realistic sense of speed. It looks more like I'm flying a pitts special or even a Cessna! Lifting up the VR headset momentarily and seeing how it looks on a conventional monitor I see a very realistic sense of speed over the terrain. Lower the headset back in place and the aircraft appears to be flying much slower... no real sense of speed.

 

Running HTC Vive...

 

Framerate is 45 but I notice even when flying over sea at low level with an fps up to 89 it still looks slower in VR.

 

Is this a GPU issue?

 

Running a GTX 1070 on an overclocked Ryzen 1700 (3.9ghz).

A monitors FOV affects your sense of speed, vary it with the zoom view and see

So comparing this perception on VR and a monitor is difficult.

110 diagonal field of view is not enough to give you the sense of speed when your peripheral vision is seriously cropped.

 

Like in the many of the common VR games, a way to fight against nausea that VR players can suffer when they are moving quickly (dashing, sliding etc) is to include vignetting to view when they move, so their field of view is even more narrowed and the sense of speed is limited.

 

This same thing can be seen in the FPS games, play with a 90 degree FOV and things feels slow, but change to 107 or even 120 degree FOV and things starts to be faster.

It looks about right to me tbh I use a Rift S now it's surprising how slow 420kts at 250ft feels in a Jet. I will admit the enormous DCS trees may warp the feeling a bit, but overall it seems about right to me.

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

It looks about right to me tbh I use a Rift S now it's surprising how slow 420kts at 250ft feels in a Jet. I will admit the enormous DCS trees may warp the feeling a bit, but overall it seems about right to me.

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

 

So how do you explain the massive difference in ground speed shown on the monitor?

 

Cockpit videos of REAL low level high speed flight reflect the same speed shown on a monitor... not VR.

 

 

^^^

Edited July 16, 2019 by grammaton_feather

I did wonder about the field of view but I haven't noticed this outside of DCS World.

 

I will test in IL-2 today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se95M2ySzDI

 

watch that and it will explain.

 

2d has a wider fov than VR.

notice it takes the same time to reach the end of the corridor.

but one seems much faster. (the wider fov)

 

as zoom in DCS changes fov in 2d, it will constantly mess with your perception of speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se95M2ySzDI

 

watch that and it will explain.

 

2d has a wider fov than VR.

notice it takes the same time to reach the end of the corridor.

but one seems much faster. (the wider fov)

 

as zoom in DCS changes fov in 2d, it will constantly mess with your perception of speed.

 

OK, so explain how IL-2 gives a great sensation of speed at low level in VR. Pretty much what you'd expect from a real aircraft.

 

There's something seriously wrong about the way it's rendered to VR on DCS.

 

And if I recall... this slow sense of speed isn't present on Nevada. I will test this again.

Edited July 16, 2019 by grammaton_feather

we cannot explain your sensations.

you need to explain them.

we can help you understand though.

 

maybe its tree height. them being larger in DCS.

which would explain treeless Nevada for you.

and a faster il2.

or IPD/world scale in both games. try adjusting the IPD in DCS.

we cannot explain your sensations.

you need to explain them.

we can help you understand though.

 

maybe its tree height. them being larger in DCS.

which would explain treeless Nevada for you.

and a faster il2.

or IPD/world scale in both games. try adjusting the IPD in DCS.

 

Tried Nevada and Gulf and they both have realistic speed sensation.

 

It's the caucasus where the problem lies. The movement at low level looks and feels slow. More like a Cessna flight. It's only an issue in VR on Caucasus but it's severe to the point where I would not want to fly there.

Edited July 16, 2019 by grammaton_feather

Tried Nevada and Gulf and they both have realistic speed sensation.

 

It's the caucasus where the problem lies. The movement at low level looks and feels slow. More like a Cessna flight. It's only an issue in VR on Caucasus but it's severe to the point where I would not want to fly there.

 

I've noticed this also and completely agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se95M2ySzDI

 

watch that and it will explain.

 

2d has a wider fov than VR.

notice it takes the same time to reach the end of the corridor.

but one seems much faster. (the wider fov)

 

as zoom in DCS changes fov in 2d, it will constantly mess with your perception of speed.

 

Video demonstrates it well... but how come Nevada and Gulf have much greater sense of speed than Caucasus? Caucasus are the real problem here. It's more like a hot air balloon ride.

Edited July 16, 2019 by grammaton_feather

I mostly fly helicopters and being able to eyeball your speed is an essential skill for not dying.

when weaving between the trees and buildings, and coming in to land in difficult spots.

if there was a difference this would necessitate me flying differently between maps.

I don't fly differently. and I don't perceive a difference in speed. and I own them all.

and I only fly in VR because of the bonus in spatial awareness. also essential for helicopters.

 

so as a helicopter pilot I cannot agree. but then again rotor heads and jet jockeys never agree on anything :)

 

edit: this was in reply to post 10

Edited July 16, 2019 by Quadg

So how do you explain the massive difference in ground speed shown on the monitor?

 

Cockpit videos of REAL low level high speed flight reflect the same speed shown on a monitor... not VR.

 

 

^^^

Not sure what you mean by Real low level flying , the video you show looks about right but the FOV makes it feel different from real.life. He looks to be about 250 feet most of the time which is NATO standard. I have a fair amount of time at low level in real life tho not as much as our GR1 brethren. Your problem appears to be the FOV as already mentioned and as I mentioned earlier the trees in the Caucus make it a bit odd. Before low level flying in Alaska we were warned that some of the ranges had areas where a lot of the trees are very small so don't fly so low as to make them look normal.

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

The ground detail is higher on the Nevada map and the Persian Gulf map, thus increasing your sensation of speed.

 

And obviously, those GoPro videos you see on most aircraft videos will have a good sense of speed because of the extreme field of view.

 

yes this. in the caucuses you can see the grass ground clutter at 20ft. you probably cannot see it at 100ft.

 

PG and Nevada have tufts of vegetation that are much more visible for ground clutter.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Quadg

So how do you explain the massive difference in ground speed shown on the monitor?

 

 

Fly with realistic FOVs. Your "realistic sense of speed" is unrealistic in the first place. In my case for example the FOV of my screen is just barely exceeding 30°. That's almost a full zoom in in DCS. Fly with that view and everything seems as slow as it does in VR. The faster sensation literally comes from a wider FOV squeezed onto a post stamp.

 

 

And since you mention that other sim, that one doesn't have up 140° FOV when zoomed out, AFAIK it goes from 30 thru 90°.

 

 

Regarding the maps, I've come across people saying the trees were way too large which might cause the issue. I just looked up how large pines can get, which is around 35-40m in height. I remember having to stay above at least 100m in the Viggen (it's been a while I did this the last time) though to stay clear of those if there's no way fo fly below their treetops. Try flying north of the Caucasus where those are not present and see if it differs.

OK, I guess ground detail more apparent on Nevada and Gulf helping to maintain a sense of speed at low level. I understand the FOV effect on speed now thanks to the explanations given here.

 

I will go back in and check the ground level detail on caucasus to fully understand what's happening.

Grammaton, the videos you are linking are using a camera with a high FOV. This is giving a false sense of speed.

Grammaton, the videos you are linking are using a camera with a high FOV. This is giving a false sense of speed.

 

Yes, I understand that part now...

 

What I'm still fuzzy on is...

 

Nevada and Gulf give a greater sense of speed in VR.

 

Is it because of the ground detail?

 

A few times in this discussion trees have been mentioned but I still don't get how tall trees reduce the sensation of speed.

Big trees trick your brain into thinking it's lower than it is, you expect more ground rush than you get so it feels slower than you expect.

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

Big trees trick your brain into thinking it's lower than it is, you expect more ground rush than you get so it feels slower than you expect.

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

 

^^^

Exactly. Wish there was a setting for this; when I find those patches of low scrubs (NTTR or PG) I feel like I'm _movin_! At least more so than the blacksea map.

 

As for VR vs my monitor; my cat, staring at me off to the side of my monitor, kinda ruins the sensation of blasting along at mach 1+. Only in VR, when he jumps into my lap, do things get 'off'.

Big trees trick your brain into thinking it's lower than it is, you expect more ground rush than you get so it feels slower than you expect.

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

 

Aha!

 

Ok, I get it now finally.

 

We need massive deforestation for better sensation of speed.