Stutter introduced with OB Update 9?

It's rather strange, as I played about 95% stutter-free from Update 1 all the way through Update 8 on the Open Beta, but since the recent Update 9 I suddenly have stutters across all modules in both Caucasus and Nevada. The F/A-18C seems to have it the worst, but even the Yak and Spitfire give me stutters any time I add a quick, sudden control input, like when doing aerobatics or something. My settings and missions have not been changed at all through these 9 updates.

Yes I noticed it too.

When doing fast control inputs, sometimes my DCS freezes for 2-5 sec, but I also get small stutters here & there.....F-18 seems most affected. Even though I have +100 fps.

I also get it with the AV8B when I switch on navflir.

Yep, flying along, try to snap into a 90° bank for a rapid turn, freeze, suddenly find myself almost inverted after the freeze.

Yeah I'm looking for help with this too.

here is my bug report: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3602487&postcount=21

I can't fly the Hornet, there is no more joy

I noticed this too.

I noticed some 16GBs ram here, I caught DCS hitting the ceiling yesterday at 15+GB ram usage. Mainly on Persian G map. Not sure if this issue could be some how be related to memory. Caused me to eventually BSOD at memory ceiling and display all the issues reported here.

Multiplayer - at startup on RW (A10C) I couldn't pan over to an AV8B...It'd lock up for 10+ seconds.

Yeah I'm looking for help with this too.

 

 

here is my bug report: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3602487&postcount=21

Also @Dusty, I noticed your Page file is only 26GB. I've read somewhere online that that doubling your page file to the size of your ram can improve performance[16x2=32]...So naturally I went over kill to 62GB Page File :music_whistling:

Which pagefile should we be altering? The DCS drive pagefile, or the OS drive pagefile?

Which pagefile should we be altering? The DCS drive pagefile, or the OS drive pagefile?

In total they should have at least 32GB imho, I hit 31.5GB swap yesterday and since I went to 48GB.

The best would be a 3rd SSD, neither OS nor DCS, if available. I use an old 840Evo for that task.

I confirm as well that I am experiencing small stutters since the Open Beta Update 9.

No such stutters was in the previous builds.

S!

Which pagefile should we be altering? The DCS drive pagefile, or the OS drive pagefile?

First of all, no subsitute RAM should ever be used for a software program like this, if you are exceeding RAM, then you're simply not meeting minimal or recommended requirements, I would put such a note/disclamer officialy if I was a developer.

The hard drive is slow and a SSD lifetime is impacted by constant background writes (browser caches, heavy swapping), the whole idea of secondary RAM is prehistoric, from the 90ies.

The only big legitimate use of the pagefile, with my limited research, is for storing dummy reserve/backup memory (MS uses different terminology here, i forgot exactly) these virtual memory pages are more or less empty or contain rarely used memory, then it would act as a metadata file just to store some info which makes an application think it has more memory than

The final nail in the coffin is, there's no way for the OS to figure out what memory the application will never use again or predict it's usage, that's all up to the program and even the developers can't predict everything a user would do unless they preprogram all possibilities into a dynamic preloader that would allocate stuff ahead, and the expectations of the facts that the program is trying to replicate, there is no excuse for something being late.

This is a totally wrong direction and also inefficient and impractical, it's so much easier and simpler for the application to manage the memories and to just get more RAM, with the application in charge, you don't even need this idea of "putting backup reserve memory that isn't used to a pagefile on disk", the developers know exactly how much their program takes memory in official scenarios (except spamming 1000x units/assets in editor), they don't need any of this nonsense "give my application Y amount of available memory so it can grow there if it needs it", or a similar one "give my application X amount of fake memory so it magically runs faster", that's the common thing that MS and other media/marketing has messaged about pagefile, I don't know if it's really accurate or not, but if it is, it just shows you how this is totally unneeded when you take another approach, when you manage your application's memory, and when you live in 2018, you don't need the god forsaken secondary RAM on a slow swap/page file.

The whole idea of a pagefile wasn't meant in mind with a special software like this, high-performance 3D gaming, as well as, it wasn't meant for when application want to manage their own memory, it was meant for a variety of programs where such slowdowns due to fetching data from a slower location are not noticed or do not matter if they're noticable, pagefile was never meant for gaming and such uses.

In one way you could say pagefile/swapfile is a babysitter for bad coding, or lazy coding, it also meant to help developers so they don't have with memory management, that's exactly the problem now, it's not economical nor practical for one company and one OS to optimize the behavior for every single specific use out there, same as no one company and one driver can manage the 10000 different PC games out there, and this is what you get, what you innocent customers are experiencing is a totally normal effect of this system, not a side effect, it's what get's traded in turn.

The times have come along, developers and the computer industry is more mature now, it's so simple to just put more RAM in and forget about the X amount of megabytes that may be sitting around doing nothing, no, IT IS DOING SOMETHING, it's BEING READY for when you need it, when you do something in a game rarely, when you visit a map area you did not visit for a long time, it is READY instantly, that is the realization, the proponets of secondary RAM and pagefile are WRONG when they say that part of RAM isn't being used, SITTING THERE and WAITING is a good thing in this case, we want smooth application behavior at all times, that's the price, that's the standard, otherwise is below it.

No, it's not a premium thing, it's THE STANDARD, it's only a premium if you compare it to something else, that is nothing compared to reality, so this is another realization, only those who are below it would describe it as a premum, and this is the big thing DCS has to view this as a STANDARD, something normal, not something special from the DCS's objective point of view. Ofcourse from the human socioeconomic point of view it's still a premium, not denying that.

This is so similar to the GFX APIs, that's what Vulkan API is all about, giving developers more responsibility.

BTW: Virtual memory is not pagefile it self, that's just the term MS uses for what an application sees primairly, it's a mix of pagefile and RAM, most of it suppose to go to RAM what's needed to be in RAM but that's in theory, their idea doesn't always work in practice, i've seen many times how weird performance bugs (stutters every 15 seconds for no reason in other games) were caused by just mere presence of a pagefile without

This is the kind of policy that should be adhered to by an OS developer if they enfocre such a feature to be enabled by default. The policy should be IMO:

It's up to the OS to manage properly these settings and behavior so that when RAM usage isn't exceeded, the existance of a page or swap file no matter how large has zero impact on an application's performance, if this is not so, then it's either OS or application's fault, none of the users fault.

And there's another thing "Oh may gawd your system will be unstable if you don't use pagefile" ... that's another one of those things that's not right with reality, when you run out of RAM, your system crashes, this is perfectly normal behavior, it's natural, that's another thing what pagefile is meant to circumvent, another feature that has nothing to do with high-performance 3D gaming, and it's an artificial thing ofcourse, it's like, if you live near a raging river .. yes you can live 1 meter away from a raging river, as long as you don't fall in, you're going to be just fine, as long as you don't exceed total RAM requirements, you can be 1 Megabyte below the treshold, nothing is going to happen to the PC, no crashes, no slowdowns, absolutely NOTHING, this is pretty much established, I don't think it's an "imo" about this, is it?

The various internet voices for needing the pagefile also

The only area they may be right is, if Windows was designed to work with one so deeply, then in that case you'd need it, but this is another reason, desiging and writing a whole OS, to not work is a totally human and subjective decision and again is not something holds true for all computer industry and software in general.

---end rant hehe

Anyway, as for DCS and ED specifically, ran't wasn't aimed at them, I did one of those in general rants again once in a while, to some new people around here might be helpful, and speaking of newcomers, there already is better memory management being developed as well as already released for DCS, so ofcourse ED knows this area is important and I didn't said anything new in this post really, but it also a reminder, how easy solution it is for all of these problems, if the industry just came together, like they did with Vulkan API, or something.

One big problem is, it has to do with hardware design, the idea of separate VRAM and RAM is going against this, unfortunately the best way is that the GPU/CPU/MEM is all as close as possible, that's one of the reasons why consoles can be optimized so much and run a lot more efficient than PC. Unfortunately that goes agains PC platform it self, open platform with ability to add/replace hardware parts, this is the big challenge to overcome, otherwise the PC would change, you'd be replacing one huge chip with all 3 pieces at the same time, and it wouldn't be optimal for customers if only one company would produce that 3-in-1 package.

Just FYI - I've found a few things in my troubleshooting....Probably the solution to my problem..

But if this game crashes and does not close properly. It won't clear your memory. Although task manager will show your memory is clear. It will still be reserved for that session. So instead if you open a new session. It will "Stack" The memory on the new session and it will double your RAM usage for DCS even if not used...I've ran into this issue 5 Years ago with "Total War Shogun 2"

For instance: If the Game crashes at 7GB RAM usage, when you go to open a new session/mission. It will have 14GB Allocated.

So if you have 16GB RAM. Your OS needs 2GB, 14GB + 2 = 16. You're at the ceiling - wanna Alt+Tab bud?...Nah System Crash if you're maxed -->[Reboot].

Also second note, [i haven't tested fully so take with a grain of salt] - But I'm starting to believe if you switch from Single Player to Multiplayer at a different location of the map you were using...It will leave that memory reserved. So your multiplayer mission will also have your ram doubled..I need more testing with this theory

The best advice I can offer from this issue, is if your experiencing unusually high ram usage - Be sure to reboot. It'll channel the power from your ram and complete a proper reset.

Yeah I'm looking for help with this too.

here is my bug report: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3602487&postcount=21

Hey Dusty, you have a GTX 1050ti 3GB, I have a GTX 780 3GB - I can't touch max on the texture quality. You're probably maxing out your Virtual Memory as well. That 1050ti is at 3GBs.

I have to wait till I make it home to check my settings.

First of all, no subsitute RAM should ever be used for a software program like this, if you are exceeding RAM, then you're simply not meeting minimal or recommended requirements, I would put such a note/disclamer officialy if I was a developer.

 

The hard drive is slow and a SSD lifetime is impacted by constant background writes (browser caches, heavy swapping), the whole idea of secondary RAM is prehistoric, from the 90ies.

 

The only big legitimate use of the pagefile, with my limited research, is for storing dummy reserve/backup memory (MS uses different terminology here, i forgot exactly) these virtual memory pages are more or less empty or contain rarely used memory, then it would act as a metadata file just to store some info which makes an application think it has more memory than

 

The final nail in the coffin is, there's no way for the OS to figure out what memory the application will never use again or predict it's usage, that's all up to the program and even the developers can't predict everything a user would do unless they preprogram all possibilities into a dynamic preloader that would allocate stuff ahead, and the expectations of the facts that the program is trying to replicate, there is no excuse for something being late.

 

This is a totally wrong direction and also inefficient and impractical, it's so much easier and simpler for the application to manage the memories and to just get more RAM, with the application in charge, you don't even need this idea of "putting backup reserve memory that isn't used to a pagefile on disk", the developers know exactly how much their program takes memory in official scenarios (except spamming 1000x units/assets in editor), they don't need any of this nonsense "give my application Y amount of available memory so it can grow there if it needs it", or a similar one "give my application X amount of fake memory so it magically runs faster", that's the common thing that MS and other media/marketing has messaged about pagefile, I don't know if it's really accurate or not, but if it is, it just shows you how this is totally unneeded when you take another approach, when you manage your application's memory, and when you live in 2018, you don't need the god forsaken secondary RAM on a slow swap/page file.

 

The whole idea of a pagefile wasn't meant in mind with a special software like this, high-performance 3D gaming, as well as, it wasn't meant for when application want to manage their own memory, it was meant for a variety of programs where such slowdowns due to fetching data from a slower location are not noticed or do not matter if they're noticable, pagefile was never meant for gaming and such uses.

 

In one way you could say pagefile/swapfile is a babysitter for bad coding, or lazy coding, it also meant to help developers so they don't have with memory management, that's exactly the problem now, it's not economical nor practical for one company and one OS to optimize the behavior for every single specific use out there, same as no one company and one driver can manage the 10000 different PC games out there, and this is what you get, what you innocent customers are experiencing is a totally normal effect of this system, not a side effect, it's what get's traded in turn.

 

The times have come along, developers and the computer industry is more mature now, it's so simple to just put more RAM in and forget about the X amount of megabytes that may be sitting around doing nothing, no, IT IS DOING SOMETHING, it's BEING READY for when you need it, when you do something in a game rarely, when you visit a map area you did not visit for a long time, it is READY instantly, that is the realization, the proponets of secondary RAM and pagefile are WRONG when they say that part of RAM isn't being used, SITTING THERE and WAITING is a good thing in this case, we want smooth application behavior at all times, that's the price, that's the standard, otherwise is below it.

 

No, it's not a premium thing, it's THE STANDARD, it's only a premium if you compare it to something else, that is nothing compared to reality, so this is another realization, only those who are below it would describe it as a premum, and this is the big thing DCS has to view this as a STANDARD, something normal, not something special from the DCS's objective point of view. Ofcourse from the human socioeconomic point of view it's still a premium, not denying that.

 

This is so similar to the GFX APIs, that's what Vulkan API is all about, giving developers more responsibility.

 

BTW: Virtual memory is not pagefile it self, that's just the term MS uses for what an application sees primairly, it's a mix of pagefile and RAM, most of it suppose to go to RAM what's needed to be in RAM but that's in theory, their idea doesn't always work in practice, i've seen many times how weird performance bugs (stutters every 15 seconds for no reason in other games) were caused by just mere presence of a pagefile without

This is the kind of policy that should be adhered to by an OS developer if they enfocre such a feature to be enabled by default. The policy should be IMO:

It's up to the OS to manage properly these settings and behavior so that when RAM usage isn't exceeded, the existance of a page or swap file no matter how large has zero impact on an application's performance, if this is not so, then it's either OS or application's fault, none of the users fault.

And there's another thing "Oh may gawd your system will be unstable if you don't use pagefile" ... that's another one of those things that's not right with reality, when you run out of RAM, your system crashes, this is perfectly normal behavior, it's natural, that's another thing what pagefile is meant to circumvent, another feature that has nothing to do with high-performance 3D gaming, and it's an artificial thing ofcourse, it's like, if you live near a raging river .. yes you can live 1 meter away from a raging river, as long as you don't fall in, you're going to be just fine, as long as you don't exceed total RAM requirements, you can be 1 Megabyte below the treshold, nothing is going to happen to the PC, no crashes, no slowdowns, absolutely NOTHING, this is pretty much established, I don't think it's an "imo" about this, is it?

 

The various internet voices for needing the pagefile also

The only area they may be right is, if Windows was designed to work with one so deeply, then in that case you'd need it, but this is another reason, desiging and writing a whole OS, to not work is a totally human and subjective decision and again is not something holds true for all computer industry and software in general.

 

---end rant hehe

 

Anyway, as for DCS and ED specifically, ran't wasn't aimed at them, I did one of those in general rants again once in a while, to some new people around here might be helpful, and speaking of newcomers, there already is better memory management being developed as well as already released for DCS, so ofcourse ED knows this area is important and I didn't said anything new in this post really, but it also a reminder, how easy solution it is for all of these problems, if the industry just came together, like they did with Vulkan API, or something.

 

One big problem is, it has to do with hardware design, the idea of separate VRAM and RAM is going against this, unfortunately the best way is that the GPU/CPU/MEM is all as close as possible, that's one of the reasons why consoles can be optimized so much and run a lot more efficient than PC. Unfortunately that goes agains PC platform it self, open platform with ability to add/replace hardware parts, this is the big challenge to overcome, otherwise the PC would change, you'd be replacing one huge chip with all 3 pieces at the same time, and it wouldn't be optimal for customers if only one company would produce that 3-in-1 package.

 

 

A simple question:

Why did my system go up to 31.5GB swap and 16GB RAM usage when i have 32GB ?

I havent even flown in that mission, just sat in the pit with running engines for 3h.

FWIW, my PF is now 48GB...and if need to be I make it 250GB..LoL

Anything, just keep it smooth and above 60fps YIHAA

Since Update 10 I've had fewer stutters, especially those generated when doing sharp maneuvers or on touchdown.

I confirm as well that I am experiencing small stutters since the Open Beta Update 9.

 

No such stutters was in the previous builds.

 

S!

Same here mate...:(

stutter noticed here too:(

stutter noticed here too:(

I really hope they sort it. I’m gutted!!! Was running so well!!

same here.

some very annoying stutters during quick maneuvers / sudden control inputs.

settings untouched since the last ~9 updates.

Please ED, work on these issues before introducing new "features" that mess up with our systems even more.

Yeah fps keeps dipping really low every few seconds, so can't really play the game. Didn't try with any other module than Hornet. I had the same issue some time ago, but it went away.

I had really bad stuttering where it was smooth before...I checked my settings and changed full screen to UNCHECKED...fixed my issues. Don't know why.

I had really bad stuttering where it was smooth before...I checked my settings and changed full screen to UNCHECKED...fixed my issues. Don't know why.

Yeah I always recommend unticking the Fullscreen box in options and using the left alt + enter trick, works the best

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3621926&postcount=17

Yeah I always recommend unticking the Fullscreen box in options and using the left alt + enter trick, works the best

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3621926&postcount=17

FS or not...SRS overlay or not.

Sadly the SRS Frequency/Channel overlay only works in windowed mode, so I mostly leave it windowed despite i have the FS box checked, it just doesnt go FS as configured.

I have that Asus Fan control overlay in the lower right corner of my screen. As long as I can see that little arrow sticking out I know I am windowed or FS. In FS nothing is on top of DCS, no Fan Control and no SRS.

there are problems on how windows dwm ( dekstop windows manager) manages the fullscreen/window mode, etc etc. with latest 1803 build .its being discusses since long time on nvidia forums.

With the 1808 this issue should be fixed by microsux.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1004600/geforce-drivers/all-games-stuttering-with-fps-drops-since-windows-10-creators-update/274/