Razorback

Might be a lot to ask, but I’d love to see a Razorback version in the future.

Don’t forget the P-47M and the P-47N!!!

True P-47s are razorbacks.

By the time the bubble tops arrived the glory days of the jug in the 8th airforce were over - all fighter groups converted to the cheaper P-51, except 56th FG that stayed with jugs, because they wouldn’t settle for anything smaller. Bubble tops were mostly ground pounders, except P-47M that were exclusive to 56FG (even though their old razorbacks already achieved similar performance as the M a year earlier) and the P47Ns that were sent to the east because only there fuel depots large enough to fuel one existed.

It is a shame that when sims model a jug they first go for D-30/40 instead of the truly classic razorbacks that did most of the hard work, both in europe and the east.

But hey, I am happy with my new D-30 too :thumbsup:

True P-47s are razorbacks.

By the time the bubble tops arrived the glory days of the jug in the 8th airforce were over - all fighter groups converted to the cheaper P-51, except 56th FG that stayed with jugs, because they wouldn’t settle for anything smaller. Bubble tops were mostly ground pounders, except P-47M that were exclusive to 56FG (even though their old razorbacks already achieved similar performance as the M a year earlier) and the P47Ns that were sent to the east because only there fuel depots large enough to fuel one existed.

 

It is a shame that when sims model a jug they first go for D-30/40 instead of the truly classic razorbacks that did most of the hard work, both in europe and the east.

 

But hey, I am happy with my new D-30 too :thumbsup:

because it makes more sense for mainstream appeal to have definitive edition of an aircraft, and not an early inferior version of one, since that seems to be a trend. Bubble top canopy jugs also makes sense considering the ww2 theatre is europe 1944-1945, Normandy specifically. SO this is in fact a timeframe where jugs were going to full time ground pounders.

Besides considering the competition is like the Bf109K4 and FW190 D9, its good thing its a late jug, because razorback would have been totally outclassed as fighters.

TBH even i still prefer the P51 over P47 for a2a dog fighting. I think most are going to use it as a ground pounder.

I'll put a vote forward for the razorback as well.

I don't agree with Kev's assessment that it was inferior. The P-47D-22 and 23 (razorbacks) and the -30 (bubbletop we currently have) were all similar enough that you could technically just take the existing framework and put a razorback model over it with minor changes to some of the FM. The only disadvantage it had was the lack of rearward visibility, but mirrors existed and more importantly, it never stopped the Me-109 pilots from being good in an online PvP environment or in real life.

The razorback was faster, more laterally stable, and had better pilot protection. It could still escort bombers and it could still attack ground targets. (I'll ignore briefly the fact that I think its better looking than the bubbletop)

Please ED, give us a Razorback and I'm not sure I'll fly anything else.

Yeah i would absolutely love a Razorback to

I'd love to see a razorback as well at some point. But doing one right would involve a significant amount of new 3D model work, as well as determining exactly how to handle out of spec operation.

The early models had very different cockpit layouts. The spec limits become an issue because the early versions were rated for 100 octane, and the known engine limits at the time, but did not have any of the automatic engine limit era that the late models had, and, in some cases could still be run to those later limits without modification.

So they need to work through the systems effects of what happens when someone take a P-47D-5, turns on the water and runs the MP up to 72"? Does the engine blow a seal? If the seals between the -21 and the -57 aren't different, is it valid for one to fail when the other holds? Do they just risk the engine going into detonation if they handle the inlet temperatures wrong? What are the right ones? Do they assume that all versions are running on 100 octane gas from the states, or do they model things based on the British 130 gas that they were using in the war?

The D-30 has the simplicity that, if you over boost the engine, it dumps pressure on you so you shouldn't be able to run past 64" for any length of time, but ten razorbacks you are that much closer to the hardware, and the model needs to be that much more expansive.

That said, a P-47D-5 with all of the various options and refits available would be *really cool*. You get to go from an aircraft that didn't even come with WI to something that could nearly match the D-30's performance, after the prop refit and fuel grade uprate.

I'd love to see a razorback as well at some point. But doing one right would involve a significant amount of new 3D model work, as well as determining exactly how to handle out of spec operation.

 

The early models had very different cockpit layouts. The spec limits become an issue because the early versions were rated for 100 octane, and the known engine limits at the time, but did not have any of the automatic engine limit era that the late models had, and, in some cases could still be run to those later limits without modification.

 

So they need to work through the systems effects of what happens when someone take a P-47D-5, turns on the water and runs the MP up to 72"? Does the engine blow a seal? If the seals between the -21 and the -57 aren't different, is it valid for one to fail when the other holds? Do they just risk the engine going into detonation if they handle the inlet temperatures wrong? What are the right ones? Do they assume that all versions are running on 100 octane gas from the states, or do they model things based on the British 130 gas that they were using in the war?

 

The D-30 has the simplicity that, if you over boost the engine, it dumps pressure on you so you shouldn't be able to run past 64" for any length of time, but ten razorbacks you are that much closer to the hardware, and the model needs to be that much more expansive.

 

That said, a P-47D-5 with all of the various options and refits available would be *really cool*. You get to go from an aircraft that didn't even come with WI to something that could nearly match the D-30's performance, after the prop refit and fuel grade uprate.

I think all the p-47 used the 130 octane fuel but could use the lower grade in continental US (was 95?) for training only. Obviously with the limitations that this fuel imposed.

Later in the war came the posibility of the 150octanes.

I think all the p-47 used the 130 octane fuel but could use the lower grade in continental US (was 95?) for training only. Obviously with the limitations that this fuel imposed.

Later in the war came the posibility of the 150octanes.

I seem to recall it was the European theater in particular that ended up with 130 octane fuel early,and I want to say it was mostly that it was something the British had developed(?) but I have not even begun to dig into the logistics of how all that happened and who had what when. I would be very surprised if the Soviet P-47's saw any 130 gas on the Eastern Front. All I do know is the planes that were naked at a 58" redline were marked before the aircraft was re-rated for the 130 octane gas.

I also had the impression that the 150 octane fuel didn't buy the plane much over the 130 octane gas, until the 'M' and 'N' versions with the larger turbo charger were fielded. You got more speed at lower altitudes because you could run higher boost, but once it got past the critical altitude ended up being largely the same, just due to the available manifold pressure.

Granted, since most online combat takes place at low level, I can see that being a significant factor in online play, though.

+1 to the Razorback...probably D-15 or D-22 would be a good bet

Yes please to a razorback!

We can dream! I'd love to see a Razorback. (And a high back P-51, too!)

because it makes more sense for mainstream appeal to have definitive edition of an aircraft, and not an early inferior version of one, since that seems to be a trend. Bubble top canopy jugs also makes sense considering the ww2 theatre is europe 1944-1945, Normandy specifically. SO this is in fact a timeframe where jugs were going to full time ground pounders.

 

Besides considering the competition is like the Bf109K4 and FW190 D9, its good thing its a late jug, because razorback would have been totally outclassed as fighters.

 

 

TBH even i still prefer the P51 over P47 for a2a dog fighting. I think most are going to use it as a ground pounder.

Razorbacks weren't outclassed imo. Performance was pretty much the same as the bubbletops, the main disadvantage was the limited visibility. Razorbacks served until the very end of the war in the ETO.

it would be pretty amazing to see an N variant, like really awesome but there's no way I think :(

Razorbacks weren't outclassed imo. Performance was pretty much the same as the bubbletops, the main disadvantage was the limited visibility. Razorbacks served until the very end of the war in the ETO.

True, they were constantly upgraded in the field to match the standards of the new models rolling off of the production lines. Most squadrons operated a mix of razorbacks and bubble tops, some till VE day.

I'm in for the razorback. I like the bubble top model, but I love the razorback.

True P-47s are razorbacks.

By the time the bubble tops arrived the glory days of the jug in the 8th airforce were over - all fighter groups converted to the cheaper P-51, except 56th FG that stayed with jugs, because they wouldn’t settle for anything smaller. Bubble tops were mostly ground pounders.

And their glory days in the Ninth Air Force were just beginning.

 

And their glory days in the Ninth Air Force were just beginning.

 

True, but the 9th operated a mix of late-model razobacks and bubble tops all the way to the end of the war.

+1 here on that one.  They look great!

Would have preferred the razorback through choice, but I do love this module. It would be a great addition at some point but quite a lot of work involved with the cockpit view as well. 

Bit late to the party but a Razorback Jug would be awesome!

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I'd love to get a late razorback modification in DCS (D-22 or -23, or both). How much difference is there between late razorbacks and  already modeled bubble canopy P-47s systems-wise? Will it be too much work to make them? (3D model, aerodynamics, prop controls)

I would pretty much sell body parts if it meant we could have a razorback

I opened a fresh thread, think the D 20 RE would be a perfect fit. Should be the same as our current Jug, except Dorsal Fin and Bubbletop.