Harrier Cold start issue...

As long as I hit the cutoff first it powers right up as it should. \

I'm glad you figured it out.

The way it should work is you hit the eng start switch, let the engine spool, push the throttle forward into the idle position. That's it.

If you are having to press the throttle cutoff to being spooling the engine during start, your real throttle was not at idle when you loaded into the 3D world. Which the sim will realize and move your throttle forward, into the idle stop.

The effect of this is that you will need to place your throttle at idle, press the throttle cutoff, which places the throttle at cutoff again. allowing you to start the engine.

I'm telling you, take some time in your pit and play with the throttle to understand how this works. It is incorrect for you to have to move the cutoff lever during the start.

I WAS WRONG.

You CAN advance the Throttle to idle without doing anything else. Once at idle, if the Parking Brake Lever is on (to the rear) the in-cockpit Throttle is locked in the idle position and cannot be moved.

So, give a cold-start situation with the Throttle at cutoff --given that all other steps to start the engine were correct-- once you flipp the ENG ST switch from OFF toward the front, and RPM's have increased to 9.2, when you advance the Throttle to idle, the engine will start.

What is still confusing me is mvgas's statement that he successfully starts the engine by first releasing the Parking Brake, advancing the Throttle to full, and then returning it to idle, and then setting the Parking Brake again --if he is following the FM, as he stated.

I have to test this more thoroughly and make more exact notes, as this is kind of complex and confusing the way it is working now, and there are so many different combinations to be tested :cry:

I'm glad you figured it out.

 

The way it should work is you hit the eng start switch, let the engine spool, push the throttle forward into the idle position. That's it.

 

If you are having to press the throttle cutoff to being spooling the engine during start, your real throttle was not at idle when you loaded into the 3D world. Which the sim will realize and move your throttle forward, into the idle stop.

 

The effect of this is that you will need to place your throttle at idle, press the throttle cutoff, which places the throttle at cutoff again. allowing you to start the engine.

 

I'm telling you, take some time in your pit and play with the throttle to understand how this works. It is incorrect for you to have to move the cutoff lever during the start.

First, thanks for all your help.

I have Warthog Hotas, and it is all the way back to the idle stop on mission start. I'll try it all the way back past the idle stop though I'm not sure the axis actually maps all the way. But yes, I've noticed weird behavior with the throttle on various air start missions (i.e. throttle is all the way back but the jet is at full power until I move the throttle to where I want it).

IIRC what I'm doing is clicking the cutoff lever button, and then moving the throttle to get it to go (while the parking brake is on) and then when I finish up setting up the jet otherwise disengaging the brake so I can throttle up.

First, thanks for all your help.

 

I have Warthog Hotas, and it is all the way back to the idle stop on mission start. I'll try it all the way back past the idle stop though I'm not sure the axis actually maps all the way. But yes, I've noticed weird behavior with the throttle on various air start missions (i.e. throttle is all the way back but the jet is at full power until I move the throttle to where I want it).

 

IIRC what I'm doing is clicking the cutoff lever button, and then moving the throttle to get it to go (while the parking brake is on) and then when I finish up setting up the jet otherwise disengaging the brake so I can throttle up.

There was a problem with the warthog throttle like what you are saying. I thought it was fixed but I use a t1600 HOTAS so it never bothered me. Check some of the older bug reports and see if it was supposed to be fixed.

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What is still confusing me is mvgas's statement that he successfully starts the engine by first releasing the Parking Brake, advancing the Throttle to full, and then returning it to idle, and then setting the Parking Brake again --if he is following the FM, as he stated.

Could you please point to me where did I post that? If I did, I apologies since that does not make since. But I don't see where I posted this.

First, thanks for all your help.

 

I have Warthog Hotas, and it is all the way back to the idle stop on mission start. I'll try it all the way back past the idle stop though I'm not sure the axis actually maps all the way. But yes, I've noticed weird behavior with the throttle on various air start missions (i.e. throttle is all the way back but the jet is at full power until I move the throttle to where I want it).

 

IIRC what I'm doing is clicking the cutoff lever button, and then moving the throttle to get it to go (while the parking brake is on) and then when I finish up setting up the jet otherwise disengaging the brake so I can throttle up.

In DCS, option page, under miscellaneous. Do you have:"synchronize cockpit control with HOTAS"

check or uncheck? Does changing this makes a difference to you in term of how your control react?

Like Shadow posted, you should not need to press throttle cut off.

Could you please point to me where did I post that? If I did, I apologies since that does not make since. But I don't see where I posted this.

Yes, of course. You didn't write it word-for-word, you wrote (see bold underlined text in the quote below):

I don't see that.

 

I don't used checklist like Chucks guide, I try to use the available manual found online (there are several versions AFAIK, 2005, 2008 and 2011). I normally check the throttle as per A1-AV8BB-NFM−000, Sep 2011, para 7.5.1, page 7-13, steps 6 A to F, so not sure if that is why I don't see it. But to start the engine, I simple move my throttle I bit forward and back to idle once 5.0% RPM is reach and RPM rises as expected to idle. I have started the engine without following the NATOP and did not have to move neither the parking brake nor the engine cutoff at all.

 

 

Anyway, we still need Harlikwin to post a track see if it was a one time thing, or of we can identify what he is missing.

Not at home right now, but IIRC Steps 6 A thru F are something like

- Advance throttle to stop

- Press throttle against the stop to activate the Jet Nozzle temp override

- Check some settings

- Return throttle to idle

- Reset jet nozzle temp settings

- Set parking brake

Form Sep 2011 version

6. Throttle quadrant check.

a. Parking brake — OFF.

b. Throttle — FULL, JPT limiter OFF.

c. Idle stop — Check.

d. Throttle — OFF.

e. JPT limiter — ON.

f. Parking brake — ON.

Note sub-step d

From 2008 version

6. Throttle quadrant check.

a. Parking brake — OFF.

b. Throttle — FULL, JPT LIMITER OFF.

c. Idle stop — CHECK.

d. Throttle — OFF.

e. JPT limiter — ON.

f. Parking brake — ON.

By the way, this is not for starting, if you look at the manual and as I posted, this is to check the throttle.

*ugh* so "d. Throttle — OFF." means in the cutoff position, which after reading more in the FM is generally also called "fully off". I kind of missed that. I thought you ended step 6 with the throttle at idle :doh: So your statement makes sense to me now. :thumbup:

I've also found what I was looking for with regards to idle or cutoff before ENG ST: page 7-15 under 7.1.6 Starting Engine, point 7. Throttle -- OFF.

It doesn't say anything about what happens if throttle is not off, but experience says in DCS, the engine doesn't start to turn.

*ugh* so "d. Throttle — OFF." means in the cutoff position, which after reading more in the FM is generally also called "fully off". I kind of missed that. I thought you ended step 6 with the throttle at idle :doh: So your statement makes sense to me now. :thumbup:

 

I've also found what I was looking for with regards to idle or cutoff before ENG ST: page 7-15 under 7.1.6 Starting Engine, point 7. Throttle -- OFF.

 

It doesn't say anything about what happens if throttle is not off, but experience says in DCS, the engine doesn't start to turn.

That step is reminding the pilot to ensure his throttle is off before attempting to start.

In DCS we know what happens. In RL, I have never started a AV8B nor ever been in the cockpit. But basing in my experience, having the throttle on or idle while attempting to start will introduce fuel to the combustion chamber before the engine RPM is high enough, so you can have engine fire, stall or stagnation, uncommanded auto acceleration (meaning RPM rising out of control rapidly) hot start or hung start.

Yeah, I never really stopped to think of what happens during startup, basically that you have to get the turbines turning before you can introduce fuel and ignition.

Oh, those old propeller birds were so much easier to learn :D

In DCS, option page, under miscellaneous. Do you have:"synchronize cockpit control with HOTAS"

check or uncheck? Does changing this makes a difference to you in term of how your control react?

 

Like Shadow posted, you should not need to press throttle cut off.

I remember seeing that setting, I think its unchecked right now, I'll try to see if checking it makes a difference.

Ok fully resolved now. The sync button was unchecked, so I had jiggle the throttle to sync it I guess. Anyhow, any movement basically took it off the cutoff position so I had to pop the cutoff switch to get it to work. With it synced and in the full back position it works now as it should and I can start without using the cutoff. Yeesh what a ride.

Glad you figure it out.

Thanks for all your help. The community here is great.

I also hope someone else can learn from my pain. The combination of control weirdness along with lack of detailed documentation is problematic. Be nice if chucks or someone elses guide at least mentioned that if that throttle is not in the right position it won't work.