CAN ED/DCS develop multiseat FC3 Fidelity should the F14 pilot/RIO become success?

its great that DCS offers study level sim aircraft.

DCS is amazing in VR.

unfortunately when i Have friends over to play, DCS level aircraft is way beyond comprehension in a few hours sit in.

How ever, my guests do enjoy the Flaming Cliffs aircraft since the controls are less intense compared to DCS level aircraft.

I welcome the upcoming Modern Air Combat ( when ever that will come out )

BUT I Wish there would be MAC / FC3 level aircraft that accomodates for multiseat!!

i.e A6 intruder, AH1 Cobra, Mi24, Mi28, F15E, F18E..

i look forward to heatblur F14 and the future AH1 Cobra.. but i only can hope for easier to operate aircraft that will appeal to VR multiplay!

One of the great things about multi crew study sims like the F-14 is that it will be a lot easier to get newbies into DCS as your RIO. Then you can just show them the ropes as you go. The A6 Intruder would be the perfect plane for the job since you could give your guest instructions a lot easier.

One of the many reasons I want the F-14 is to more easily lure some friends to check it out. And by that I mean that you will be able to share your Tomcat with a friend without them having to also buy it. Then they can just download their free copy of DCS and hop in with you as your RIO.

By the way DCS has stated before that they no longer plan to release anymore FC3 level aircraft. So what will be in Modern Air Combat will be it!

Did they say something about the MAC L39 being multicrew or not?

need a multi crew fighter. any aircraft that has pilot and gunner.. UH-1, A6, please ED, look in to those for a MAC version!

its good that L39 can be MAC & multicrew, but its more of a trainer!

One of the great things about multi crew study sims like the F-14 is that it will be a lot easier to get newbies into DCS as your RIO. Then you can just show them the ropes as you go. The A6 Intruder would be the perfect plane for the job since you could give your guest instructions a lot easier.

 

One of the many reasons I want the F-14 is to more easily lure some friends to check it out. And by that I mean that you will be able to share your Tomcat with a friend without them having to also buy it. Then they can just download their free copy of DCS and hop in with you as your RIO.

i bought the F14 buddy pack, but irrevelvant to the main topic.

and i am sorry, my friends are not flight sim enthusiast. they dont have neither a PC or the hardware, NOR time to get into Study sims, most of the time they are one day guests that just want to fly shoot, and have fun, since i am facilitating the hardware. Its daunting for them to start a dcs level aircraft, let alone operated weapons.

This thread is to bring to attention that we need multicrew MAC/FC3 versions of multicrew aircraft.. have an options for the other other newbie that dont want DCS level study, and just want to play in multiplayer. people still fly F15 and Su27. my friend had a great time in the A10A, the A10C was just fustrating for them.

Maybe it will change when VR controls are improve.

I cant not effectively get my friends to function in a DCS level aircraft with the current VR control scheme, thats why FC3 aircraft is good, since the joystick mappings are simplier than DCS aircraft.

You're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole IMO.

You state your friends aren't flight simmers, yet you want a dedicated flight sim to be changed to cater for them?

Surely you'd be better off playing something like WT with them instead, as that's designed as an accessible game rather than a sim?

I know the above will be sounding elitist, but to me your entire issue is akin to complaining that an F1 car is a terrible off-road vehicle.

There are lots of more casual flight games out there, virtually all of them, just as an fyi. I'm not opposed to FC in general, but there's little point in trying to gut DCS to appeal to 'people who know nothing' when there are already plenty of options for them. I mean, seriously, the greater complexity is the WHOLE point of DCS. If you strip all that out, then there's no difference between, Arma, Ace Combat etc, all of which do 'casual flight' far better than DCS ever could.

I get wanting to introduce your friends to DCS but if you want to pique their interest in sims, start with something nore appropriate for their skill level. Or use the simpler training aircraft, as I did, to show someone the potential without overwhelming them.

Kind of ironic that people want the high-tier complex aircraft but are not prepared to operate them for the full experience in DCS.

The L39 and other old aircraft have much of role in low intensity conflicts and can be great fun for beginners. Perhaps you should tell your friends about the Korean War and the Mig-15? It was a really tough conflict and the Mig proved surprisingly capable.

Also I'm working on 2 different missions for the time being, one of them will have L39 which is pretty much the top dog there - so much that I might limit some weapons such as the air-to-air missiles. The L39 can basically give you as much of the DCS experience as a new player can absorb in the first few weeks. It's silly how players ogle the 1-3 pieces of military kit they know about, when the fun comes from the quality of the mechanics and the depth of the environment (or WTH are you looking at DCS :D). But I understand it can be hard for us to change.

That said I think there would be room for more FC3 level aircraft. The Kiowa for example should be a free, unarmed helicopter and could do a great job as such, both for DCS and for Polychop. DCS is not just a simulator; it's growing as a versatile multiplayer tactical environment. You're forgetting also that there are ground units with much lower learning curve, which new players can man and perform a job even if they are not fully trained pilots yet!

They can do an FC3 fidelity Panavia Tornado for me! Then upgrade it to DCS level in a few years :)

I totally understand your point about some study planes such as the A-10C being too complex for the average person with no sim experience. Even I don't enjoy flying the A-10C as much because of its complexity and always forget how to operate it if I don't stay current flying it. I suggest using more simpler aircraft such as the F-86 and the Mig-15. Even the Viggen is kinda simple enough with just enough complexity to make it an enjoyable experience. I would also add that the Viggen is one of the few jets that is really easy to learn to land because of the auto throttle setting and auto flaps. And all of these are really simple to start up requiring just few switches to be flipped.

''I love Ferrarris, but they're too fast and expensive! Can you like... make one that LOOKS like a Ferrarri, and DRIVES like a Ferrarri, but maybe with 4-cylinder... and under $40k? Thnks bye''

''I love Ferrarris, but they're too fast and expensive! Can you like... make one that LOOKS like a Ferrarri, and DRIVES like a Ferrarri, but maybe with 4-cylinder... and under $40k? Thnks bye''

Add to that an automatic transmission, oh wait most already do only come with DCT auto transmissions because the majority of the customer base of rich people cant be bothered with a manual when all they want to do is drive a flashy looking sports car with out actually learning to drive it to its full potential.

Hey, on that note, I bought my current car six years ago with a manual, because, why buy a sports car without it, amiright? Lol I must be getting older... or lazier anyway. I'm def getting auto next time =)

Hey, on that note, I bought my current car six years ago with a manual, because, why buy a sports car without it, amiright? Lol I must be getting older... or lazier anyway. I'm def getting auto next time =)

I can certainly understand wanting to drive an automatic for commuting or just a cursing along. But you will always miss the thrill of driving a manual for those moments you are in the mood. My suggestion is to just keep your current car as your week end toy and get a 2nd car with an auto as your everyday beater. :smilewink:

i never said "stop developing DCS level aircraft..nor cancel the F14!"

jeez.

Im just about choices.

hey all im saying is that people fly F15, and Su27, and you have those that fly A10 F18.

Whats lacking is multicrew combat aircraft at the FC3 level.

dont we want to bring in more casual players that potentially will be serious simmers?

especially into multiplayer?

fc3 planes are boring because there are not much thing to do due to limited simulated systems and non clickable cockpits. although this, if you split the roles into two, it will get more boring.

fc3 planes are boring because there are not much thing to do due to limited simulated systems and non clickable cockpits. although this, if you split the roles into two, it will get more boring.

that is your opinion, which i disagree.

you must be a christen eagle pilot lol?

i want my full fidelity planes as well as FC3 level aircraft.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/667970/VTOL_VR/

VTOL VR on steam is very popular in the virtual reality community because its not as complicated as DCS, and its simple fun and works.

i myself do not care for this game, but the popularity for this simple fligh game speaks for it self.

VR users already know how immersive flight sims can be. but DCS level planes are not for the faint hearted, not everyone wants to spend all the time turning on a cockpit.

hence Mordern Air Combat is being developed.

as mentioned again, it would be great that there is FC3 level multiseat aircraft.

for those who want DCS full detail level, choices are here, but multiseat aircraft is limited as it is, if F14 is success with the pilot/RIO.. then FC3 multiseat is just options for other players out there that want to get into DCS.

Yeah, but here's the thing, you're taking an already nonexistent workload and splitting it between two people lol Ok, so the OTHER guy hits tab to cycle through targets and mashes spacebar to fire..yep. super exciting stuff there rofl

yes. being a doorgunner on the huey, or even on the Ju87 stuka as a gunner would be amazing.

weapons dont have to be complicated on all aircraft. if you want to fly DCS A10C, no one is stopping you.

ill take AH1 cobra or AH64 apache... at DCS level or FC3 level if its having a functional multiplayer multiseat.

its great that DCS offers study level sim aircraft.

DCS is amazing in VR.

 

unfortunately when i Have friends over to play, DCS level aircraft is way beyond comprehension in a few hours sit in.

How ever, my guests do enjoy the Flaming Cliffs aircraft since the controls are less intense compared to DCS level aircraft.

 

I welcome the upcoming Modern Air Combat ( when ever that will come out )

 

BUT I Wish there would be MAC / FC3 level aircraft that accomodates for multiseat!!

i.e A6 intruder, AH1 Cobra, Mi24, Mi28, F15E, F18E..

 

i look forward to heatblur F14 and the future AH1 Cobra.. but i only can hope for easier to operate aircraft that will appeal to VR multiplay!

I don't wanna sound rude friend, though i know what you feel.

On my own experience, i'm more into flight sims than car race sims, since ever. I recently bought Dirt Rally in VR, it said to be a Rally race Sim, i know shit about cars, car setups, how to properly drift and all the things that exept driving from point A to B as i do in real life, i totaly suck at racing in that game, totaly. Though i accept the fact people wants more fidelity, more challenge, more possibilities to setup stuff in the car and mechanics as close to the real thing. Though i won't ask them to make it easier, les game and more like the old Project Gotham 2 game on old condoles, and make it a less sim, as there is so much other racing games around i go just turn around to and play, i simply accept how it'S made and the purpuse of it and try to learn.

FC3 is old, really old, now the era is trying to get the aircrafts modules closer to the real thing. There is a few other flight sims that nakes the purpuse of easiest things, as in the racing games i mentionned. It takes them enough time to come up with a module, if you ask them to model an altenative for easy flying, it'll take even more times to come up with it and double the chances of bugs.

Yes weapons can be complex, but it's a sim, not a Arma game or Battlefield, on contrary, people whine when it's not close enough to the real thing, as Dirt Rally, making custom settings as per how you want your front differential, suspension, your rear ones, how you want your gear ratio set, spring releasing tention etc. it's a pain and i know shit, but majority of peaople like it this way, you cna leave it default, but you suck at with them. So it'S either i read, watch movies ont he subjet or go with the flow, i won'T go ask the developpers to make a casual driver a different programming of the game because i don't wanna learn them. With Youtube now, you can learn pretty much all moduels in here, since there is so many tutorials ont he net, and most under 10 minutes, learing little by little, no need to learn all systems, after that, not only learning the system, but learning the dynamics of flying can also become a problem for him, dogfighting someone that knows maneuvers, ever as basics as they are as High, Low- yoyos' maintianing energy, will also makes him frustrated if he knows nothing. Reminds me in Dirt Rally cuz i can't propely understand to maintain and use momentum in Hair-Pins turns. :)

I was just thinking today that it would be great if it were possible to give friends a demo ride in any two seat aircraft you own with out them having to buy the same module.

It could be limited to a particular server or something.

fc3 planes are boring because there are not much thing to do due to limited simulated systems and non clickable cockpits. although this, if you split the roles into two, it will get more boring.

Elitism kills the game! Propaganda works well that you can only do a full clickable module because you can ask for more money. Many forget that in Flaming Cliffs 2 and earlier, nothing was completely clickable.

With lighter moduls, you can bring more people into the game. Not everyone needs to read 500 and 1000 page manuals / module. Not everyone comes to DCS World because they want to be a professional fighter pilot or a strike or combat helicopter pilot and do command every day.

Each clickable module could have a light version nodule, generating more revenue for ED and other developers. Light modules are just as difficult to fly and you have to fight them just as few buttons are needed to turn on a particular feature.

So there could be more futures ahead of DCS World and more people could come and enjoy this amazing simulator. There is no better in the world and no one can compete with it. We need to give people the opportunity.

Do not close the door in front of others!

Elitism kills the game! Propaganda works well that you can only do a full loyalty module because you can ask for more money.

Это не элитизм, это выпендреж и снобизм

Это не элитизм, это выпендреж и снобизм

When I came over from Flaming Cliffs 2 to DCS World I thought I could fly with a modernized Flanker and Fulcrum and in 2013 they promised a lot of types that nothing became. What they promised could have been done as an easy module so not to simulate secrets.

There could be plenty of modules in the game, mostly Russian, that could be implemented in the form of a simplified module. For example, a Su 25TM cabin is already there, a lot of things have not changed, there are still plenty of other weapons that would bring forward those who have been flying the same plane for 10+ years and want something more modern. Same with Flanker or Fulcrum. Check out what DeKa is doing with the Flanker + MFI 55. It’s just going to be amazing and I don’t have to read 1000 pages to learn how it works!

You're right!