Realistic or Balance - J-11A Datalink - Page 6 - ED Forums


View Poll Results: Keep/Remove J-11A Datalink
Remove 198 63.67%
Keep 113 36.33%
Voters: 311. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-14-2018, 01:22 AM   #51
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I opt for an option on this- one that can be set server side in the mission building options and/or in the special options menu for players. I'm all for realism but since it is a FC3 aircraft, some options would be great. Thanks for adding this awesome jet!
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:23 AM   #52
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:43 PM   #53
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Some sensitive things are classified, thus can never be realistic in the game. In this case, please "make-up" an alternative, that can be reasonably used to make the combat realistic.

So if real J-11A has a working data link, please give us one in the game, even if it's different from real.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:48 PM   #54
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I vote for realistic, like the MIG-29S that have no datalink MFD, only a HUD duplicity.

But the SU-27Sk have a very complex DL, with many more options than the FC3 one. This was not bought by china?

Last edited by JunMcKill; 05-15-2018 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:49 AM   #55
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Russian didnt allow China access to the DL.

Like some comunication and navigation systems that where dismounted also.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:31 AM   #56
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The options should be weighted by the development plan. If the later model is to be implemented, the DL in early model should be left inside to simulate that late model, until that model is out. Only then the first model should have it's DL removed. Thus, we'll see two different models, early w/o DL and late with DL.

If the latter model is not to be implemented (or it will take considerable time to do so), then the best solution is a switch in Mission Editor, deciding what does this airplane simulate -- the latter model with DL or the early model without. This way we can have both historycally accurate, but with limited combat capacity relict and the modern action-capable combat aircraft that will actually take combat servise if something happens.

I voted for a "keep" decision, but I think we all understand that it's not the query ratio that makes the decision, but the arguments of sides.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:08 AM   #57
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actually, this issue can be easily delt with.
it can be made that J-11A can only be fed by KJ-2000/200, and Su-27S can only be fed by A-50. REDFOR will have to add Chinese AWACS to feed J-11A
then it's done,nice and easy
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:16 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by BuBu9010 View Post
actually, this issue can be easily delt with.
it can be made that J-11A can only be fed by KJ-2000/200, and Su-27S can only be fed by A-50. REDFOR will have to add Chinese AWACS to feed J-11A
then it's done,nice and easy
That's not technically the question here. Early J-11A which looked like the one in FC3 had no datalink at all apparently, while the datalink was added in a later upgrade, but before that another upgrade also replaced the screen with an MFD.

So, the question is whether to remove the datalink as the cockpit matches the early J-11A standard which didn't have it or pretend that it's a later J-11A standard with the DL and ignore the missing MFD.

Personally, I'd prefer it to be an optional so both could be used depending on the scenario.
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:52 PM   #59
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And fix the SU-27 DL in MP, it's been broken for YEARS.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:01 PM   #60
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Question that will influence my decision:

What are you going to replace the J-11A's data with?
That heads-down display is still there from every picture I've seen. From what I know, that's also not a HUD repeater like in the Mig-29. In fact, it's an MFD that may be closer to a systems display, an RWR, or an overhead radar view all in one.

The reason I ask is because I remember this same discussion happening with the Mig-29 a long, long time ago. The mig-29 initially had the same Datalink that the SU-27 did specifically because the systems were just mirrored for FC3, no one thought it was important enough to fix. It later came to light that only the Mig-29S would have any hope of having a Datalink, so they removed it and put a HUD repeater in its place. The problem is that not all Mig-29 versions had a HUD repeater there, especially the 29S; and it was equally unrealistic to put one for every single Mig-29. It traded one piece of unrealism for another. Heck, every version of the Mig-29 before the S shouldn't even be able to fire the cannon with a centerline fuel tank attached, but the A and G will happily fire its cannon all day long with one.

I guess my point is: If you cannot model what the actual early-version J-11As have for its head down display, then don't bother. It's making work for yourself and you're just making something even more unrealistic to fit arbitrary definitions of 'realism' from random people on the forums who seem to think realism is just making all the aircraft worse. This notion of total realism isn't in the definition of basic FC3 aircraft to begin with. If you could make it one of the MFD pages like a systems display, a more advanced RWR, or even the same top-down radar view but without the datalink; then sure. But that gets into the coding part of it and I'm not sure you have the resources to even attempt modifying the stock SU-27.

Originally Posted by al531246 View Post
Absolutely remove if the real aircraft counterpart doesn't have the capability.

If it's kept for balance reasons we'll have begun a journey towards the death of what DCS prides itself on - accuracy.
Also I think arguments like these are misleading at best, but I see them all throughout the thread.
If you can only replace unrealism with more unrealism, then what's the point? DCS isn't going to die because an unspecified feature was kind-of-sort-of available on the same aircraft of a later version but not the version that we have right now. If that was really your concern, then the 15C that we have shouldn't have 120Cs, and the Mig-21 shouldn't be able to fire Groms but should be able to fire R-73s. These are compromises that DCS has just sort of lived with because fighting to get them changed wouldn't be worth the effort.

Last edited by Auditor; 05-16-2018 at 06:27 PM.
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