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Should the F-15C Get JHMCS


frixon28

Should the F-15C Get JHMCS  

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  1. 1. Should the F-15C Get JHMCS

    • Yes
      70
    • No
      84


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Hello all,

The F/A-18C Lot 20 is coming out within the next year. Along with it's other new weapons like HARM,HARPOON and JSOW, it will be coming with JHMCS and AIM-9X. the The JHMCS and AIM-9X would mean that the Hornet would completely annihilate the Eagle in the merge most of the time. Since the F-15C does nothing but air to air and is the king of air to air fighting in all of history, I think the F-15C should get JHMCS BECAUSE the F/A-18C is[/i].What do you guys think.

 

Edit 2 - Why does the Hornet have JHMCS and the Eagle doesn't? I just think it would be ridiculous to not have it on an air to air fighter but have it on a strike fighter. DCS is a simulator so let the Eagle have JHMCS if the Hornet does too, unless this is a simulator of the Final Countdown. They would be modeled in the same time period


Edited by frixon28
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depends

 

if the data is here, maybe, the MP world is working just fine as it is now, without the JHMCS, but having it would be nice but not needed

 

Even though the hornet has the X, if a pilot knows what he does, it will not annihilate the eagle...

 

Also, why would you want to balance things out if this is a simulator? war is not balanced and i think even if in DCS is something unbalanced, either wait for a new enemy or don't fly it, balancing isn't a big option for me...

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As far as I know, only the JHMCS was confirmed by ED as part of the hornet.

 

You shouldn't balance planes. If the plane didn't have that particular system in real life, it should not have it in the sim.

 

The F-15C has the X and the JHMCS, but after an upgrade, so Indeed, let our eagle stay the eagle as it is now

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The F-15C has the X and the JHMCS, but after an upgrade, so Indeed, let our eagle stay the eagle as it is now

 

In that case it would be nice if we actually got blue force aircraft consistent with time frame and technology then. otherwise it is arguably anachronistic for a USAF F15C without JHMCS to be in the same battlefield as a F/A18C with the 9x and JMHCS features. since these features are basically standard now and were being delivered to these aircraft as early as 2004 ( according to Boeing's site)

 

we should rather have secondary version of F/A18C without those.


Edited by Kev2go
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it would be nice if we actually got blue force aircraft consistent with time frame and technology then. otherwise anachronisitc for a F15C without JHMCS to be in the same battlefield as a F/A18C with the 9x and JMHCS features. since these features are basically standard now.

 

we should rather have secondary version of F/A18C without those.

 

well, then you could apply the same thing to the A-10C which would also have kind off a HMCS, but we don't have it (yet?) in DCS

 

Before they put the JHMCS in it, they should add the other systems that are missing (if there are some important systems), then make it a full fidelity module and with that should the JHMCS be available for it

 

Edit - Sorry for confusion but when I said for balancing reasons I meant to say for balancing out the fact of why does the Hornet have JHMCS and the Eagle doesn't. I just think it would be ridiculous to not have it on an air to air fighter but have it on a strike fighter

 

Balancing and get the plane on the latest standard are kind of two different things...

 

It's up to the devs which version from which time they want to simulate, with that comes the availability of certain systems. Our eagle is now "simulated" before the JHMCS upgrade, our Hornet will be simulated with the JHMCS...

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well, then you could apply the same thing to the A-10C which would also have kind off a HMCS, but we don't have it (yet?) in DCS

 

Before they put the JHMCS in it, they should add the other systems that are missing (if there are some important systems), then make it a full fidelity module and with that should the JHMCS be available for it

 

 

 

Balancing and get the plane on the latest standard are kind of two different things...

 

It's up to the devs which version from which time they want to simulate, with that comes the availability of certain systems. Our eagle is now "simulated" before the JHMCS upgrade, our Hornet will be simulated with the JHMCS...

 

but the A10c we have is the suite 3.1 was developed before suite 7B or 8 were around. Back then when ED made started development the suite 3 was the most modern A10C version. ED said for a full fidelty module it would require them to renew a license for A10C Suite 7B or 8 ( which has JHMCS, among some other features)

 

Either way A10C suite 3.1 without any SCorpion HMD is not anachronistic alongside F/A18C with JHMCS. or even a Eagle with JHMCS because it first entered service in 2007, and did not get deployed until 2008 to Iraq. . remember that Deliveries of JMCS to fighters began earlier than that around 2004-05

 

so was the F15c, but being a FC3 module it would be simpler to update.

 

In that case again ithey should keep in mind to keep aircraft consistent with time frame. Similarly how some people thing DCS ww2 is a mess. having Axis aircraft that were not yet around flying for Normandy.

 

In any case the only reasons i don't see ED updating the F15C is because apart from Fm or 3d model updates they dont want to bother adding new features for FC. But certainly for a full fidelty Eagle additional features would be expected, that are missing from FC3 version anyways.

\

IT is by no means the latest Eagle, those would be the "golden" AESA equipped eagles.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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well, then you could apply the same thing to the A-10C which would also have kind off a HMCS, but we don't have it (yet?) in DCS

 

 

 

 

Our eagle is now "simulated" before the JHMCS upgrade, our Hornet will be simulated with the JHMCS...

 

 

1.I can only speak for myself but they are already adding the JHMCS with the Hornet, its the same JHMCS that the Air Forces and Marine's use mostly. Hawg and some Guard Vipers have much better Scorpion HMCS that has a lot of air to ground capabilities. Different topic and besides we have I believe Suite 3 or 5 A-10C, ether version was not compatible with Scorpion I believe.

 

 

 

2.This is what I don't think is right for reasons I said above, I just don't see any sense on why the Eagle should not have it, its not like the devs said they modeled our F-15C after an exact block/suite and more importantly that it was set in that period (For instance no US F/A-18C's came out when JHMCS was around, but ours is modeled as upgraded with capabilities). Sorry for weird format

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but the A10c was developed before it got the JHMCS.

 

I guess so

 

 

so was the F15c, but being a FC3 module it would be simpler to update.

 

 

It might be simpler to update, but we have like the warthog, a verison before the JHMCS upgrade... Just because OP wants a JHMCS for the eagle because the hornet got it too isn't a real reason for me to implement it in the eagle too, and if we would do this, I would also want some other things for it too...

 

 

ED said for a full fidelty module it would require them to renew a liscnse for A10C Suite 7B or 8 ( which has JHMCS, among some other features)

yep, as would it for the F-15C i assume

 

Our eagle was developed to fight the Su-27 which it does very well at the moment, I don't think they were thinking about doing a hornet with JHMCS then...

 

The flanker got its helmet visor, as do the migs... in some servers, eagles maybe won't fight hornets, so then it would be helmet visor against helmet visor right? AMRAAM isn't something new, so experienced pilot should be able to handle it...

 

I know, only the version with the JHMCS would be ok, but why do you want it? Having the newest things isn't always needed (MiG-21 vs F-15C) and it could add a challenge...

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Should the F-15C get JHMCS due to the F-18 getting JHMCS? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

 

And all this AIM-9Xphobia is kinda silly...It's a great missile, sure, but there's definitely ways around it. Rmin-ing isn't quite impossible, and simply avoiding the merge is going to be really really easy. The Bug ain't running you down, after all.

 

The Eagle could use an avionics update, but JHMCS isn't it. I don't think people understand just how off our sensors are in the DCS Eagle. There's a lot of capability you just don't have available. That needs to come first before any "nice to have' stuff like JHMCS/-9X/MIDS/whatever, but truth is that a lot of that would be in a DCS: F-15C module and not the FC3 one.

 

And as for strike fighters getting things that fighters don't...Why did F-22As *just* get AIM-9X where Bugs/Vipers/etc. (not F-15Es though) have had it for 10-15 years? ;)

 

P.S. Our Eagle is from 2000 or so, but it doesn't even represent an F-15A sometimes...-220s and NerfRAAMs aside.


Edited by Sweep

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Should the F-15C get JHMCS due to the F-18 getting JHMCS? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

 

And all this AIM-9Xphobia is kinda silly...It's a great missile, sure, but there's definitely ways around it. Rmin-ing isn't quite impossible, and simply avoiding the merge is going to be really really easy. The Bug ain't running you down, after all.

 

The Eagle could use an avionics update, but JHMCS isn't it. I don't think people understand just how off our sensors are in the DCS Eagle. There's a lot of capability you just don't have available. That needs to come first before any "nice to have' stuff like JHMCS/-9X/MIDS/whatever, but truth is that a lot of that would be in a DCS: F-15C module and not the FC3 one.

 

And as for strike fighters getting things that fighters don't...Why did F-22As *just* get AIM-9X where Bugs/Vipers/etc. (not F-15Es though) have had it for 10-15 years? ;)

 

P.S. Our Eagle is from 2000 or so, but it doesn't even represent an F-15A sometimes...-220s and NerfRAAMs aside.

 

1. I agree that the 9x isn't the be all end all of air to air engagements, it just plays a large role in the merge, especially when your fighting for the good sidewinder tone and your just out of reach and the enemy gets you and your dead. You can try to avoid the merge but in a large fight its going to happen, especially with Su & MiG pilots knowing that's where their advantages lye (lay?) in

2. With all respects...what does the Raptor have anything to do with this conversation/debate? The Eagle,Hornets and Vipers all got JHMCS capabilities in the same time period. This is why I say let the Eagle do its job all the way and let it have the capabilities. Completely agree with the problems with the current F-15C radar, model and missiles have. I guess its because its FC3???

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1. I agree that the 9x isn't the be all end all of air to air engagements, it just plays a large role in the merge, especially when your fighting for the good sidewinder tone and your just out of reach and the enemy gets you and your dead. You can try to avoid the merge but in a large fight its going to happen, especially with Su & MiG pilots knowing that's where their advantages lye (lay?) in

2. With all respects...what does the Raptor have anything to do with this conversation/debate? The Eagle,Hornets and Vipers all got JHMCS capabilities in the same time period. This is why I say let the Eagle do its job all the way and let it have the capabilities. Completely agree with the problems with the current F-15C radar, model and missiles have. I guess its because its FC3???

 

If the merge isn't safe, why not reject it and extend? Losing SA on bandits within decision range is...Inadvisable. I'd try to separate before that happens. Especially against threat weapons I cannot effectively defend.

 

And as for Russian stuff...Well, you're already trying to min range the AMRAAM, so why not do that with the AIM-9X? Nobody said this was going to be easy! :smilewink:

 

I just think it would be ridiculous to not have it on an air to air fighter but have it on a strike fighter

 

Raptors just got the 9X IRL and still don't have JHMCS. They didn't need either of them, though they are certainly great things to have. Of course, the Raptor has sensors, stealth, and speed, all of which successfully offset the lack of HMD and HOBS heater. Now here's how that ties into the discussion: the Eagle in-game, when compared with just about every other platform, has high speeds and persistence at those speeds to offset other shortcomings. I can decide whether we fight or not fight, merge or not merge, with my throttles. I can *force* you to fight *my* fight.

Lord of Salt

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If we're going to start pulling up wishlists on the grounds that "X module has this feature, so Y should too" then how about an SM-3 upgrade for the Su-27?

 

 

Because in such a feature isnt fantasy ( its already being given to the F.A18C, implying ED enough data to simulate it in hornet. The same type of JHMCS is in use on the F15C today.)

 

But SM of any kind wont happen due to lack of info and as ED is based in Moscow they may come in conflict with newer strict, Russian espionage laws if they tried to make the SM variation.

 

So no this is not a valid comparison.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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If the merge isn't safe, why not reject it and extend? Losing SA on bandits within decision range is...Inadvisable. I'd try to separate before that happens. Especially against threat weapons I cannot effectively defend.

 

And as for Russian stuff...Well, you're already trying to min range the AMRAAM, so why not do that with the AIM-9X? Nobody said this was going to be easy! :smilewink:

 

 

 

Raptors just got the 9X IRL and still don't have JHMCS. They didn't need either of them, though they are certainly great things to have. Of course, the Raptor has sensors, stealth, and speed, all of which successfully offset the lack of HMD and HOBS heater. Now here's how that ties into the discussion: the Eagle in-game, when compared with just about every other platform, has high speeds and persistence at those speeds to offset other shortcomings. I can decide whether we fight or not fight, merge or not merge, with my throttles. I can *force* you to fight *my* fight.

 

energy wont save you in WVR merge, becasue the F18 doesnt actually have to chase you down with you if you try to disengange or take the Vertical, only need a moment, Just long enough to lock you up with JHMCS, and can afford to launch aim9x off boresight bye bye F15. your F15 wont be outrunning a missile, launched with effective range, nor can you rely on flares to dupe the X.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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energy wont save you in WVR merge, becasue the F18 doesnt actually have to chase you down with you if you try to disengange or take the Vertical, only need a moment, Just long enough to lock you up with JHMCS, and can afford to launch aim9x off boresight bye bye F15. your F15 wont be outrunning a missile, launched with effective range, nor can you rely on flares to dupe the X.

 

Energy will save you from having to merge, though.

 

Alternatively, energy can collapse the WEZ while you merge, so you can blow through...

Lord of Salt

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JHMCS is just the start... From what I understand, some F-15's will upgraded with LAAD (Large Area Avionics Display), same sort of touch display that is on the F-35.

Modern Aim-9X and JHMCS would be cool to play with, but I wouldn't mind going the other way and have an earlier design in DCS. Maybe Israeli F-15A's with Python-3 and AIM-7F Sparrows.


Edited by Schmidtfire
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I voted it down not because I don't want it, but because I disagree with the OP's reasoning for it. And besides, there are much better things to work on Eagle-related, like that pitch rate bug, or expanding avionics realism/historical capability, etc.

 

I imagine there's six other people who feel similarly...?

Lord of Salt

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jhmcs will only make you lose harder to the people you're already losing against

 

dream on

 

right-dr-evil-quote-2-picture-quote-1.jpg


Edited by Kev2go

 

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I certainly wouldn't mind it but I can see why not as well and the reasoning why the eagle should have it is questionable.

It is a simulator so the F18 will never shoot at an F15 :)

I'm a 100% multiplayer pilot so I do understand what you mean though.

 

The eagle has good chances against the russian planes despite the vector thrusting R73 so why would the 9x which hopefully is a match to that decide the fight all of the sudden?

 

I don't know if the C model of the eagle ever got upgraded with 9x or HMCS but its reasonable to model a module in its time before any upgrades.

 

That apart I would assume we can fit the 9x on the eagle but the HMCS working with a "imported lockon plane" maybe a bit bigger of an request.

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