F10 map and spotting targets

Hello forum,

I've been searching for an answer for a while before posting here, so please forgive me if my question is too dumb or has already been answered.

I've recently started playing DCS and I'm still getting used to the Su-25T. I have the target labels removed and I'm trying to learn how to spot targets manually. The only help I can get during a mission with regards to target-spotting is through the in-game f10 map that displays air and ground units and through which I can understand whether an area is clear or not.

My problem is that it is not all ground units that are displayed on the f10 map. For instance, in the first campaign mission of Su-25T, the player has to clear waypoint 5 before proceeding to 6. While trying to do that, I made several attacks on wp5 until no target was displayed on the f10 map. Then I decided to fly low over wp5 towards wp6 only to get hit by some AAA that was not displayed on the map (eventually I also noticed that several trucks were also not displayed on the map).

Is there any logic behind this behaviour, or is it just a bug? If it is normal, how am I supposed to know whether an area is clear or not?

Mission design. You can control what appears on the map when you design the missions.

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Thank you for your reply Slazi,

I haven't designed any missions. I'm just trying to play the default campaign.

So, are you saying that the designer of this mission decided to 'hide' some trucks and some AAA? Is there any logic behind this decision or is it mere caprice? If it's the latter then this renders the f10 map untrustworthy.

Of course it isn't entirely reliable. Mission designers are attempting to provide a realistic experience. Do you think in real life that pilots have maps that show the location of every threat or target? The behavior is by design and is not intended to be capricious. If you really want to see everything on the F10 map then it is often possible to edit the mission yourself and unhide the hidden assets.

Thank you for your reply Slazi,

I haven't designed any missions. I'm just trying to play the default campaign.

So, are you saying that the designer of this mission decided to 'hide' some trucks and some AAA? Is there any logic behind this decision or is it mere caprice? If it's the latter then this renders the f10 map untrustworthy.

Thank you sthompson,

No, from what I see it's not realistic. It's just looks messed up. The trucks that I referred to in my previous comment were 'hidden' on the f10 map yet they were clearly visible in the middle of a valley among other targets that were shown on the map. Yet, some other targets which were actually hidden behind trees and buildings were 'visible' on the map. It doesn't make sense.

So, should I assume that there's no logic through which the targets are displayed on the map? If so, how do I know whether an area is clear other than getting hit?

From your description, it sounds like the intent was clear. Use F10 view to clue you as to the location of hidden assets, on the assumption that there was no need to display those in F10 which were clearly visible.

The general answer is: it depends. ;)

There are several options that affect the visibility of units on the F10 map.

By default, all units are visible on the F10 map, but the mission designer can decide to set any individual unit to "invisible".

Then, there's a setting on the "Gameplay" tab labeled F10 View Options:

- All: shows all units on the F10 map

- Allies only: shows only allied units

- Fog of War: shows only allied units plus those enemy units that have been spotted by friendlies (for a certain amount of time).

- My A/C: player aircraft only

- Map only: shows no units at all on the F10 map

As far as I know, individual units that have been set to "invisible" won't ever be visible on the F10 map regardless of the above setting (but I might be wrong here).

Next thing to know: each mission can override your global setting and enforce any of the above F10 View Options.

And if you join a multiplayer server, the server's setting takes precedence over your local setting (and I'm not sure whether mission enforced settings would override the server setting).

To answer in a more general way: different mission authors have different ideas about how it should be. Some leave it up to you, some make it very easy, some make it difficult. You'll have to get a feeling for it by playing a lot. ;)

Personally, I prefer to show no units on the F10 map at all. But hunting targets in the A-10 (I'm a noob in the Su-25) is incredibly difficult without help. Having a good briefing, advance intelligence, in-game pointers and messages are all helpful. I prefer those mission that provide me with this type of information. :thumbup:

Yugon, thank you for your detailed and helpful reply. I think that I now understand how the f10 map works and what to expect from it. Your explanation on the view options also cleared things up for me. Mine was set to 'all' (perhaps by default). I now have set it to the 'fog of war' which makes more sense, and adds a bit of a challenge.

I think your confusion is because you expect the F10 map to be a map of 'What I should see from my cockpit' but it is actually a map of 'What HQ has been told is there and what targets other units on the ground or in the air have seen.'

On this basis, something hard for you to spot from the air may still be shown on your map because friendly forces on the ground can see them and have called the coordinates in so you can help attack them. Conversely your example of targets being on your map but not showing everything in that same location may be because another aircraft passing over just caught a glimpse of enemy units but did not come back to take a detailed look, he just radio'd in what he noticed and missed some out.

IIRC, there were some hidden man pads in that mission by the southwestern enemy artillery trucks, another one east of the first tank column and a randomly spawned sam site in the middle of sochi. oh and 1 more manpad unit north east of that tank column.

They were a pain in my butt when i first started:d . Still, those units being hidden on f10 map is actually quite good for you. That will teach you to search and spot missile contrails.

I can give you some tips on how to survive that campaign. Never ever fly over enemy positions while you are attacking a unit. Always egress (fly away) away from enemies general direction. Try to recon with the shkval before you engage anything, check the surrounding area of your target for antiair units. Dont get too close to anything that can fire at you effectively.

Su25t had an IR jammer IIRC. Use that, pop flares and fly low after you engage something. That should do the trick against those nasty manpads.

If you still wanna make them visible, you can always use the mission editor. That being said, i would leave them hidden if i were you.

oh yes, I now understand the logic of the f10 map and I think that I like it. Indeed, it some kind of intelligence instead of 'what you see from the cockpit' map, especially when set on the 'fog of war' option.

It's indeed a pain spotting new targets, yet after some 80 hours on the frogfoot I feel that I'm getting better and better. In the aftermath it's all about tactics and patience. Thanks for the tips :thumbup: