"sound-radar"...official opinion on it?

other aircraft could be heard 75 years ago according to those pilots

No. I've studied the matter at length. I've never seen a single example of an actual WWII pilot claiming that he could hear other aircraft from his cockpit while his engine was running normally. Over the 15+ years I've been attending flight sim/game forums, I've only seen a very tiny handful (perhaps four) forum users even claiming they've read such a thing.

Meanwhile, on the other side, you have innumerable accounts from pilots where the other aircraft was point-blank and couldn't be heard. There've been numerous real aerobatic pilots who've confirmed flat-out (some on this very forum) that you cannot hear the other aircraft's engine, even when the wingtips are three feet apart. I myself was flying, IRL, a Cessna when another Cessna passed about a hundred feet away. Nothing.

There is a very, very narrow range of conditions where you can hear another aircraft's engine over your own, in reality. You can if your power settings are low, your canopy is closed (muffling the slipstream), and the enemy approaches very close to you, at a high rate of closure (the Doppler effect causing the pitch to rise above your engine's) and high power settings. If his engine's apparent sound pitch is drastically higher than yours, and his engine's absolute volume is louder than yours by a large margin, then you can hear his over your own at very close range (as in, a few yards away).

What we have in-game is hundreds of times removed from reality, in the modelling of the physics involved in this sound phenomenon. Anyone who does any significant research on the subject will quickly come to the same conclusion. Eagle Dynamics' physics engineer himself admitted that the modelling is not realistic in this matter; I even linked to the post earlier in this thread. Why, then, do you still pretend that the modelling is correct?

I think that everybody calls Porcorosso chater, should immediatly and very humbly apologize !! Before being one of the most skillfull v-pilots in DCS, he is honest and much more fair playng than most of people ! Calling him cheater is a shame !

;3227946']

if you dont like playing against people who use it - maybe better stick to singleplayer

please dont tell others how to play theire game .... its getting old

I think i will. Its people like you who ruin the integrety of a multiplayer pvp server :doh:

One of my squadmates was on this very flight a couple of months ago.

Even at this very close range (>50m) in abreast formation and without a helmet on he says he could "hardly" hear the spitfire at all.

;3227946']if you dont do it its your own fault, around 80% of all onlinepilots use it because they probably dont want to have a disadvantage over the others

 

 

 

WOW ... really ??? ... its an Ingame option to hear these sounds(hear like in helmet OFF->soundradar; ON-> No soundradar) and you call somebody you never spoke to a cheater ?? .... pretty poor imho ... if i were you, i would apologize

 

 

Please ... speak for yourself .... i for my part am here to have fun and because nobody actually has to die

 

 

Just as a genereal sidenote:

i generally dont use it(tried it since 2 days but i turn it off again because i dont like the sound of the engines with it), and i dont like it!

BUT it is built in the game and therefore it isnt a cheat - its a fact and we all have to deal with it.

dont use it - have a disadvantage over the guys using it.

use it - feel bad because "some guys on the internet said that pilots 70years ago heard it"

 

its up to everybody himself , but PLEASE stop call guys cheaters because theyre using ffeatures built in the game.

if you dont like playing against people who use it - maybe better stick to singleplayer

please dont tell others how to play theire game .... its getting old

Using the the sound sliders isn't a cheat. It'a not realistic but agree it isn't a cheat. Editing the sound file for the 109 to not sound like a 109 does seem like a cheat. Watch the video the 109 has a custom high pitch sound that makes it easy to identify what type of airplane it is.. and to know when a 109 is on his six without looking, etc...

I'm new to burning skies and was surprised to see that sound mod passes the server integrity check. For example I got booted once for using a 190 English cockpit texture mod but yet this sound mod passes? One gives a competitive advantage and the other allows me to read the gauges lol.

I flew in a real airplane and one that had 80hp not 1720 or 1800. And I can say I could barely hear my thoughts and nothing outside.

The only real life pilot account I saw, from the war, was that he throttled down his Me109 during battle of britain and opened the small window in the cannopy and was trying to hear the higher pitched Merlin. Thats the only thing I've read.

I despise the Diveplane's sound mod, it pronounces the problem even more. I used it once when Dora was the only axis plane and when I heard the pilot in front retard the throttle and my hand immediately and instinctively closed mine I had a sudden realisation. It is not fair. People use it. I know, because I watch some DCS vids. Also, even yesterday I was above two 109's and I closed my throttle and put RPM to the lowest setting and began my dive and when beeing on 6 o'clock low they suddenly dispersed, I was sure, they heard me. Over the years people have been using this mod, I refuse to do so. To me it's an unfair advantage. Do I use sound mods? Yes. I do. I modify my own .50cal internal sounds so that they are far louder as I can't stand the standard nearly impossible to hear sound. But it's only my own in-cockpit sound.

I can't call the mod cheating though. ED's standard sound system also allows us to hear other planes around us. I do not like it and it has nothing to do with realism. I think there should be a patch that just mutes completely everything outside of the player's plane interaction (guns, hits, damage, ground handling should all be heard) and other sound sources outside should be muted.

To me the way sounds work in DCS make B&Z tactic impossible to use correctly and effectively and that is my main issue with it.

Using the the sound sliders isn't a cheat. It'a not realistic but agree it isn't a cheat. Editing the sound file for the 109 to not sound like a 109 does seem like a cheat. Watch the video the 109 has a custom high pitch sound that makes it easy to identify what type of airplane it is.. and to know when a 109 is on his six without looking, etc...

 

I'm new to burning skies and was surprised to see that sound mod passes the server integrity check. For example I got booted once for using a 190 English cockpit texture mod but yet this sound mod passes? One gives a competitive advantage and the other allows me to read the gauges lol.

I am pretty sure that's dive plane's sound mod. Itsvery loud and planes sound super high-pitched when they are facing you.

I think we all would like to keep this sim as close to real as possible. I don't know why some of you guys think that pilots could not hear other aircraft...here is one example @11:15https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tTbMKVuijE8, if I have the time I'll look for others if available

Because physics SlipBall.

Sound pressure level (SPL) decreases -6db if the distance from the source is doubled.

If I have a Merlin engine 1m away from me generating, let's say an estimated 110db as I fly at full chat.

Then a similar Merlin (or similar 12 cylinder liquid cooled engine) at 110db formates at say 256m away (makes the maths easier!) this would be a drop of 8*6=48dB, resulting in a 110-48=62db at my position. That's about the same as a normal conversation level.

Add a canopy, tight fitting leather helmet and earphones and would you expect to be able to hear someone standing on the wing outside the plane exchanging small talk whilst you perform a full ground power engine test?

I think we all would like to keep this sim as close to real as possible. I don't know why some of you guys think that pilots could not hear other aircraft...here is one example @11:15https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tTbMKVuijE8, if I have the time I'll look for others if available

Link is misleading - the pilot in this vid at 11:15-40 is talking about hearing another aircraft's guns, not engine.

There is no issue with hearing guns being fired nearby, which, ironically is the bit that CANNOT be heard in DCS!

From a Helicopter, which is quieter than a spit - listen from 2:35

audible with door (canopy) open. inaudible with canopy closed.

Tbh i not sure which upsets me the most, the fact that integrity check hasn picked this up or the fact that someone can stoop this low when cheating.

Tbh i not sure which upsets me the most, the fact that integrity check hasn picked this up or the fact that someone can stoop this low when cheating.

Funny thing is that this mod has been used for years now and now people started to notice? I mean there are lots of players using it. Its not like this is the only example.:)

I don't think all people that are using it are doing it for malicious purposes. Some people just like to have to somewhat more immersive sounds. But I am certain some people are just exploiting it. I think that instead of looking for them we finally get a patch that enforces some restrictions on the sounds from external sources.

As to realism...

No. I've studied the matter at length. I've never seen a single example of an actual WWII pilot claiming that he could hear other aircraft from his cockpit while his engine was running normally. Over the 15+ years I've been attending flight sim/game forums, I've only seen a very tiny handful (perhaps four) forum users even claiming they've read such a thing.

 

Meanwhile, on the other side, you have innumerable accounts from pilots where the other aircraft was point-blank and couldn't be heard. There've been numerous real aerobatic pilots who've confirmed flat-out (some on this very forum) that you cannot hear the other aircraft's engine, even when the wingtips are three feet apart. I myself was flying, IRL, a Cessna when another Cessna passed about a hundred feet away. Nothing.

 

There is a very, very narrow range of conditions where you can hear another aircraft's engine over your own, in reality. You can if your power settings are low, your canopy is closed (muffling the slipstream), and the enemy approaches very close to you, at a high rate of closure (the Doppler effect causing the pitch to rise above your engine's) and high power settings. If his engine's apparent sound pitch is drastically higher than yours, and his engine's absolute volume is louder than yours by a large margin, then you can hear his over your own at very close range (as in, a few yards away).

 

What we have in-game is hundreds of times removed from reality, in the modelling of the physics involved in this sound phenomenon. Anyone who does any significant research on the subject will quickly come to the same conclusion. Eagle Dynamics' physics engineer himself admitted that the modelling is not realistic in this matter; I even linked to the post earlier in this thread. Why, then, do you still pretend that the modelling is correct?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179253

Read the 12th paragraph from the top, page 1, as to "spot-on" as to DCS being accurate with their modeling.

I see the same sound features in the Neil Cooper (=ACG= if i remember) video:

He can ear-clear the other plane,but make somethings for the aim. :thumbup:

And...this is your problem,not if anyone use or not the external sound to sight the enemy, check your six more and more:

Or,like in your video,check the noise of what surround you, i feel perfectly the noise of the enemy engine in your video.

Have you exploited the sound for use in pvp server ? I think not.

The video is very recent, I suppose it's your habit to use the sound to detect the enemies,but I don't care, you are not an in-game threat.

This is a witch hunt, because you (all those who try to climb on this mirror of the sound aid theory) can not admit the simplest of things ... you're less good than people like Porco Rosso.

Anyway, we're going to make a video(THE =TIA=) where we kill you without the need for the external sound, so maybe you'll think of something else instead of pissing people that find in DCS a healthy time of fun and recreation with a lot of friends,fan and gentleman "enemies".

With or without sound,and sure no mod.

Can I continue to use the IR track or do I have to pay someone to rotate the monitor around my head when I use the POV? :megalol:

This farce has lasted too much,

I did a lot of video with these sound because I was very very far from my mind that these sound and levels could be so interpreted.

If I had with malicious intentions, I would never have published such a video, do not you think so?

And all of these are visible to everyone, from many months too.

Instead to tell me about, or very SIMPLY tell me to modify these sound because COULD help my performance, started this shamestorm against me with downvote and bad words.

I think to be reasonable guy.

"Hey porco, I see your videos, I think that your sound so loud could help you!"

"Damn, never tought! I provide immediatly"

You was judge, gran jury and executioner, without having the rights.

Heavy insult without reasons that you can see on my video, thanks you all.

And about? about sound levels ingame? Or mod used until 2 months ago that ALL used in the server?

I'm totally sure to have nothing to reproach, also because I think that my performance (that are visibile to everyone) are very far from the perfection.

If you think that this could help me so deep, and goes to bed so quiet, isn't my problem, believe it.

I continue to play, have a fun with my friends of the 2 sides and for the hour that play here evade of the real life.

And anyway, I love you all

 

Anyway, we're going to make a video(THE =TIA=) where we kill you without the need for the external sound, so maybe you'll think of something else instead of pissing people that find in DCS a healthy time of fun and recreation with a lot of friends,fan and gentleman "enemies".

 

Not if we can hear you and run away...

Remember when Tacview didn't have the delay? Did people abuse it to gain advantage online, of course they did.. Do people take advantage of the "sound-radar"? Of course they do.. Do we want cheaters on the servers? Of course we don't! Simple and clear.. this MUST be fixed, so +1 on that.

Firstly Italian Scrub, if you think a 51 hearing dead close as it whips past at 400mph and you hear it briefly along with my engine, trying to make a point......thank you, because you made the point even bigger with sound radar showing the difference between mine and porcco vid.

You complete melt.

Secondly Porcco I have never called you a cheat, I have said it's cheap and gamey, don't get all butt hurt being a victim, it's not like you would never have thought, damn I cant hear my engine that's odd.

Best thing from this is DCS pulls their finger out and makes it not possible to hear other engines so clearly, if at all over your own.

ITA this is your que to write more drivel that makes no sense and just makes people think you have special needs.

Not if we can hear you and run away...

 

Remember when Tacview didn't have the delay? Did people abuse it to gain advantage online, of course they did.. Do people take advantage of the "sound-radar"? Of course they do.. Do we want cheaters on the servers? Of course we don't! Simple and clear.. this MUST be fixed, so +1 on that.

LOL:yes:

for the advantage,not us,never.

Is not necessary.

Firstly Italian Scrub, if you think a 51 hearing dead close as it whips past at 400mph and you hear it briefly along with my engine, trying to make a point......thank you, because you made the point even bigger with sound radar showing the difference between mine and porcco vid.

You complete melt.

 

Secondly Porcco I have never called you a cheat, I have said it's cheap and gamey, don't get all butt hurt being a victim, it's not like you would never have thought, damn I cant hear my engine that's odd.

 

Best thing from this is DCS pulls their finger out and makes it not possible to hear other engines so clearly, if at all over your own.

 

 

ITA this is your que to write more drivel that makes no sense and just makes people think you have special needs.

Lol you start a shit-machine and now are in rage?

Keep calm.

Deny the evidence, get hit by a plane of '43 while you're aboard one of '45.:pilotfly:

That's all.The sound does not benefit us with pilots like you.

Italian Scrub...you can do better,i hope.

The classic are the best, you know...spaghetti pizza mandolino...

Close here if you can...fly in game not on the forum, and check your six :megalol: you need a lot of training,judging by your videos.:joystick:

Lol you start a shit-machine and now are in rage?

Keep calm.

Deny the evidence, get hit by a plane of '43 while you're aboard one of '45.:pilotfly:

That's all.The sound does not benefit us with pilots like you.

Italian Scrub...you can do better,i hope.

The classic are the best, you know...spaghetti pizza mandolino...

 

Close here if you can...fly in game not on the forum, and check your six :megalol: you need a lot of training,judging by your videos.:joystick:

:megalol: your 12 hours and 3 kills on Burning Skies suggest you need to fly more and not in the forum :megalol:

Btw if you are going to link one of my videos for sound comparison at least pick one where im flying the same plane.

Go to 25.13 of the video, only engine i can really hear is the mustang im flying

:megalol: your 12 hours and 3 kills on Burning Skies suggest you need to fly more and not in the forum :megalol:

 

Btw if you are going to link one of my videos for sound comparison at least pick one where im flying the same plane.

 

Go to 25.13 of the video, only engine i can really hear is the mustang im flying

1. Those statistics are only numbers and don't show the skill of someone and you should know that.

2. Sound mods are a bit louder than vanilla sounds so try again without sound mod.

3. ED, just fix the sound radar please

OK, let's fix it since everyone in this thread is an ace and thus have no need for it, right?

1. Those statistics are only numbers and don't show the skill of someone and you should know that.

 

2. Sound mods are a bit louder than vanilla sounds so try again without sound mod.

 

3. ED, just fix the sound radar please

I agree if you look at the consistent top 20. 3 kills in 12 hours...maybe not so much.

I dont use sound mods. Had before BS server existed.

I never made comments about pilot ability until your Italian Ace wanted to bring it into the conversation because of his tribal ties to porco.

OK, let's fix it since everyone in this thread is an ace and thus have no need for it, right?

I mean, I am. :P

Realy though, stop attacking each other. The problem is not realy with people using it (although it kinda is... but thats not the point), but the game that allows for such easy to make changes that make some tactics (B&Z and low six approaches) impossible to use.

Not to mention, you can easily hear enemy airplanes without use of any mods.

BTW, this is a second reason why I am not using a mod like that, I could see this coming 2 years ago, wierd that it happened so late xD.