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Need Axis Settings For P-47D


NavyAce

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Hello,

Does anybody have accurate roll, pitch, and yaw settings (Deadzone, X and Y Saturation, and Curvature) for the P-47D? Thanks. I found this information for the Spit IX in an old post from July 2017 called Can You Share Your Axis Curves. This is the information I need.

NavyAce

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Well, technically there is no such thing as "accurate" axis setting because of the issue you mentioned in the other thread - size and throw differences between real ctrl columns and gaming joysticks.

 

It's also worth realizing that axis settings are 100% subjective and something which works perfectly for one guy and his hardware, will be literally unplayable for the other. Thus, even though it might be interesting to read what other players use, in the end I'd suggest just tweaking by trial and error method and choosing what works best for you.

 

You just have to understand what you're doing. Deadzone, for example, is needed if one's joystick is worn out and produces spiking signals, but we don't know if yours does so. Saturations limit amount of control surfaces output, so you have to ask yourself if you want to have limited aileron/elevator/rudder deflection (in exchange for finer control near the center) or not. Curves are useful for short sticks and responsive airplanes (P-47's elevator is quite twitchy indeed), but they cause some trimming issues with FFB sticks and so on...


Edited by Art-J

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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Hi Art,

 

Thanks for the reminder of the different definitions regarding long and short sticks. I had heard through the editors of PC Pilot magazine that they thought that Warthog had a telescoping extension available, so I contacted their Customer Service department with the following request:

 

I was recently told about your Hotas Warthog stick that comes with extensions so that it can be made to approximate the length of a real WWII era stick. Can this unit be attached via a USB port and is it plug and play? How do I mount the stick on the floor? Can the sensitivity etc. settings be input through the control panels of current flight sims?

 

This was the reply I got:

 

The HOTAS Warthog does not come with extensions. Moreover, we do not encourage the use of extensions as the product was designed in a specific way and adding extensions may damage the product in the long term. Also, any modification will void the warranty.

 

So, yes I would like to eventually have a full scale joystick but this does not seem possible. In light of this, I guess I should refine what I mean by accurate and realistic, since I am obviously going to be using my desktop joystick for now. I would like to have axis settings that are at least reasonably accurate replications for the actual airplane that will be reflected realistically in the movements of my Thrustmaster T.16000M. As you say I would need to do some tweaking to fit my own needs but at least this would give me a starting point.

 

Thanks for reminding me that there are hardware differences or I probably would have continued to blunder ahead as I am not the most computer savvy person.

 

NavyAce

 

PS. You might see this post or a facsimile under another heading since I want to spread this around to some folks who might not regularly read this particular part of the forums.

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Warthog is designed in such a way, that it's possible to install an extension between grip and a base without modifying the whole thing, but Thrustmaster itself doesn't produce extensions.

 

There are some small private businesses making these (after all, a piece of hollow pipe with a flange, a nut, plus a wire with two connectors is all what it takes), some folks make them by themselves as well (I did, for example). I think you underestimate the other complications involved, however.

 

First and foremost, the gimball/pivot mechanism of every joystick on the market has angular movement range which is nothing like in the real control column.

 

You probably remember from your real aviation experiences, that stick movement range in pitch is rarely symmetric, and is different from roll movement as well. Say, 10 degrees forward, 20 back, 15 to both sides (numbers taken from top of my head, but you get the picture).

 

Warthog joystick has 20 degrees all around, meaning that if you tried to get a to-the-floor extension, the grip throw would be so big you wouldn't be able to move the stick within full movement range. I can tell from personal experience with my 30 cm extension, that 30 is max practical value given my arm length (I'm 1,86 m tall) so that I can operate the stick without leaning forward, or spreading my legs like a ballerina.

 

Then you have to figure out where and how to mount throttle unit, keyboard and mouse, because you just won't be able to operate them if they stay far forward on your desk while you're moved further back because of the long throw of the stick. And if you're moved away from the desk, you might also notice your old monitor is not big enough and you migh need a bigger one (that's why I switched from 24" to 32").

 

Don't get me wrong, stick extension offers vastly superior control accuracy over the standard length, but getting it requires more thinking through.

 

If you decide to stay with standard stick for now, I can only say back when I flew without extension, I used to set pitch curve for Spitfire to 25-ish %, roll to 15, yaw to 30. Thunderbolt seems to be as pitch sensitive as Spit, so I would probably go 25 as well.


Edited by Art-J

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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Thanks Art for the detailed reply. If I eventually decide to try a full stick I will have to get the Warthog first as I do not presently have one. If I do, can I purchase the extensions from them as well and hopefully they would come with instructions for installation.

Your points are well taken and I will keep your reply close by as I decide what to do. Thanks for all your input.

NavyAce

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NavyAce,

 

A DCS Producer made a video explaining some of the controls setup for DCS,

 

 

he specifically talks about axis setup and adjustment at about 7 minutes in.

You will also see a graphical depiction of the changes, which will allow you to visualize and test your changes in real time. They will have stronger hardware and shorter control deflections intended for non-desk mounting.

 

Regarding the hardware discussion, as BuzzU explained, you face an exponentially increasing pricetag the closer you attempt to get to real aircraft controls.

You can check out vendors such as "VKB Sim" and "Virpil" in addition to Thrustmaster for joystick options. They both sell gimbals (called "base") designed for extensions.. which they also sell.


Edited by randomTOTEN
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I agree that a Virpil or VKB is a better choice for a long extension. They're designed to use one and have the option to order with extension. The TM Warthog is not a great choice for a long extension unless you're gentile with it. Bangimg stop to stop will break it with it being a plastic gimbal. The Virpil and VKB are miles better with metal construction and ball bearings.

 

With that said I do use a Warthog with an extension but it's only 10Cm (4 in) and i'm gentile with it. I use a curve of 15 with no extension and 5 with one. I wouldn't use any curve with a longer extension. Also, what p;lane you fly matters too. Some planes need more curve than others. It always comes down to personal feel though. You might hate what I like. You need to try different settings until it feels good to you.

Buzz

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Thanks random and Buzz for your information on stick extensions. I looked at the sites for VKB and Virpil and found them interesting and not overly expensive. But the length was only 200 mm so only about 8 inches. It doesn't say in the product description but do you know if two or more of these extensions can be screwed together to get extra length? I remember that the SNJ stick seemed to be around 2.5-3 feet in length so one extension would be more realistic than none, but not as good as more. It would be great if I could find a stick premade in the length I want as as not to have to put on any extensions, and I did in fact find one advertised years ago that replicated a German WWII fighter stick, but this was priced then at about $700 so obviously out of my price range. I also found the last third of the video most informative and will keep it handy for future reference. Thanks again guys for all your help.

NavyAce

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  • 4 weeks later...
I had heard through the editors of PC Pilot magazine...
*

 

 

Since you mention a magazine, download this free exemplar of Computer Pilot and read how you can extend you T.16000M without machined parts... what implicates in have a standalone throttle, and probable will reduce their useful lifetime.

 

http://www.pcaviatornetwork.com/files/CP143MT6FZ6A.ZIP

 

But not that that "3 feet's" of this or that real plane, instead, what is feasible with conventional joysticks with angular movement around 20+20º (some models like VirPil T50CM2 is less, others like CH is more), as people with practical experience with extensions have explained.

 

* BTW - A bit uninformative this PC Pilot magazine staff about that "Warthog telescopic extension".

 

Probable refer to this: https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/

 

 

 

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Thanks for the additional information Sokol1. I will definitely check out the links. By the way, your observation of the control stick length of WWII fighters was correct. I gave the 3-4 foot length as an approximation from my last SNJ flight which was several years ago. Evidently my memory was not up to the task. As a test I got out a yardstick and sat down in a chair approximating the height of the aircraft seat and placed the yardstick between my knees. When I grabbed the yardstick with my arm resting on my leg, which would be the normal in flight position, I found that I had grasped the yardstick right at the two foot mark. So two feet is actually what i need.

 

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  • 3 months later...

My TM16000 axis x and y on the stick are now running 20 for the curve. I'm still diddling so it's not set in stone. I tried 30 and found it too sluggish. Might reduce more yet. I'm at 5 for a deadzone. Rudder is at 15 and deadzone same. I'm using the twist. The slider on the stick (also an axis) makes a good both wheel brake. On the TWCS, the axis are the 'wings(what I call them) and the 'pinky wheel'. Wings work great as the cockpit zoom and the wheel is my flaps. So far. The TWCS is a brute for fine adjustment. Someone said WD40 so I opened it up and lubed.It helped but I have this: https://www.etsy.com/listing/885326705/impulse-slider-thrustmaster-t16000m?ref=shop_home_feat_1&bes=1&variation0=1628072633&variation1=1572244310#   coming. Should do the trick. As it stands, no mid air fuelling with that throttle. It's even difficult doing a smooth run up on a prop plane.

I've also tried the TWCS ministick as rudder and aileron trim. Still flying like a boat so maybe I've got that wrong. Maybe rudder and elevator?


Edited by MoToad
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  • 8 months later...

The way I usually tune mine is do a generic Axis for Roll/Pitch/Yaw, then go into the game, fly around, see how it feels, do an Active Pause, go into settings and tune R/P/Y come back into game and see how it feels.  Do this for every module you have and you can't go wrong.  Play one of the missions, see how your toe brakes work, take off, fly, fight, RTB, and land, the whole while using Active Pause to fine tune it.  It can be a drawn out process, but save your lua files when you are done and you won't have to do it again if you reinstall the game, build a new puter or whatever reason it is we constantly lose our HOTAS set ups.  For me the true test is how well I can hold the gun-sight on target while shooting, no twitchy Pitch and Roll, and Yaw does not invoke the dreaded tail wagging, nose weaving, prevalent in DCS Warbirds. 

 

Cheers
Hoss


Edited by 352nd_Hoss

Sempre Fortis

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