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The key to zhe Gazelle


CHPL

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That's fun, that's the way it should be, and the Gazelle behaves like a Formula One car in the air.

 

There are many different opinions about the flight model, and we may argue about how realistic it is, or not.

But the main question is how can I fly this thing in DCS. And have fun with it.

 

 

 

Sir,

 

I just would like to thank you for the video. Very instructive and very productive.

 

All the best,

 

Sydy

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I will repeat this again. Polychop is working in 2 things right now. A review for the gazelle and their new project at the same time. The update for the gazelle is supposed to be released this year. BTW, try to keep it civil guys.

 

Would you mind linking the announcement? Mustve missed it if its on here.

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@Fragbum

I don't want to rewrite all the things already done in other posts on the Gazelle.(and I remember that you and me have already spoken about it on other thread) I spent à lot of time working with Polychop, now I am waiting for the FM review "this year"

 

If the new FM is realistic I would be the first to congrats the hard work done by Polychop.

 

You wrote:" This doesn't seem to be correct, cyclic displacement is rate of roll not an amount of roll??"

In real French helicopters I repeat: x cm displacement of the cyclic on a side correspond to a x degrees of roll angle and not correspond to a never ending roll at x degrees per second like it is in the DCS Gazelle. This is the first big issue in the Polychop FM.

 

So hovering with the DCS Gazelle is absolutely not realistic.

I don't know why but when you trim the cyclic of the DCS Gazelle with x cm of displacement on a side, the never ending roll stops and the behaviour is right. But IRL, trim or not is the same because Trim is only a sort of magnetic brake which block your cyclic in position (in fact it's more complicated and I am unable to explain it in English)

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@Sephyrius:

 

Would you mind linking the announcement? Mustve missed it if its on here.

 

 

About the Gazelle. We plan some updates for it in 2019. When these will eventually make it into the sim is depending on some factors. The biggest factor is time.

 

As stated on the Polychop Facebook page right here:

https://www.facebook.com/PolychopSimulations/posts/1970712439901069

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@Fragbum

I don't want to rewrite all the things already done in other posts on the Gazelle.(and I remember that you and me have already spoken about it on other thread) I spent à lot of time working with Polychop, now I am waiting for the FM review "this year"

 

If the new FM is realistic I would be the first to congrats the hard work done by Polychop.

 

You wrote:" This doesn't seem to be correct, cyclic displacement is rate of roll not an amount of roll??"

In real French helicopters I repeat: x cm displacement of the cyclic on a side correspond to a x degrees of roll angle and not correspond to a never ending roll at x degrees per second like it is in the DCS Gazelle. This is the first big issue in the Polychop FM.

 

So hovering with the DCS Gazelle is absolutely not realistic.

I don't know why but when you trim the cyclic of the DCS Gazelle with x cm of displacement on a side, the never ending roll stops and the behaviour is right. But IRL, trim or not is the same because Trim is only a sort of magnetic brake which block your cyclic in position (in fact it's more complicated and I am unable to explain it in English)

 

Thank you I look forward to a more robust discussion on various aspects regarding the Gazelle, especially the cyclic deflection vs roll angle you mention. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Many thanks for all the feedback. :thumbup:

 

Hope there are some improvements for the multi-crew function, which is already broken, upcoming in the near future.

Always happy landings ;)

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@Damcopter.

 

One of the most striking questions I have in regard to the Gazelle is that of cyclic displacement during such a simple manoeuvre as transitioning into forward flight.

 

As I understand it, as you gain forward speed blow back (and parasitic drag at el) will force you to apply ever more forward cyclic displacement to maintain and or accelerate with a forward rate of travel.

 

Is this true for the Gazelle in real life?

 

Keep in mind every military and civilian pilot I know, know their theory and aircraft intimately. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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LOL...

 

I guess I should check this section more. I just came to same conclusion about flattening the axes without "curves". I was using curves, but it was much harder. due to the huge ramp up at the ends of the curve. This Y axis adjusment is really good for ALL the helicopters. Everything is much easier and more predictable to fly.

 

Also... what did FragBum do to get banned?

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hey, this video convinced me to give the Gazelle a try, but there is a little detail:

Can you map the collective to push buttons or just to a axis? (Have to fly with one hand. :/ )

 

Thanks.:)


Edited by Peex

| AJS37 | AV-8B | M-2000C | A-10C | F-5E | KA-50 | C-101| CE2 | Yak 52| + PG

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There are several functions that you can program into the Collective such as Camera Slew etc as is the case for the Cyclic. It really depends on what Hotas you have and how many buttons is has to be programmed. But certainly there is more to them than just the Axis'.

I hope this helps.

 

PS> If you are trying to fly with one hand only, there are Cyclic Sticks that come in Left Handed and Right Handed versions.

Rudder pedals are definitely handy (especially with helicopters).

SnowTiger:joystick:

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There are several functions that you can program into the Collective such as Camera Slew etc as is the case for the Cyclic. It really depends on what Hotas you have and how many buttons is has to be programmed. But certainly there is more to them than just the Axis'.

I hope this helps.

 

PS> If you are trying to fly with one hand only, there are Cyclic Sticks that come in Left Handed and Right Handed versions.

Rudder pedals are definitely handy (especially with helicopters).

I would say rudder pedals are MANDATORY

Chinook lover - Rober -

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Thanks for the really helpful replies! =)

 

A little background: I'm slightly handicapped on one side, so I can't operate rudder pedals or a full hotas effectively (I have the pretty common T16000M in the DCS-Community). So the Stick gets stuffed to the limit with the essential functions and the throttle with the rest for the convenience, but a simultaneous operation of both would not ideal for a stable helicopter flight. :D

 

Sry, should have given some more details beforehand, but think, I'll give the Gazelle a try (maybe that my best idea^^), because the KA-50 is not the most exciting thing to fly. ;)


Edited by Peex

| AJS37 | AV-8B | M-2000C | A-10C | F-5E | KA-50 | C-101| CE2 | Yak 52| + PG

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The gazelle is not complicated.

To understand how a helicopter behaves and the differences between them, the best exercise is autorotation.

http://cromhunt.proboards.com/thread/368/autorotations-dcs-world-2-5

It's just my opinion and especially not advice, no need to open a new discussion on flight models, thank you.

After some training you will see that DCS really made an effort to differentiate them.

For this exercise it is not a matter of landing anywhere, put to be able to land without breaks wherever you want.

Last point an autorotation is done with the engine idling.

You will also see that the gazelle is not the easiest, and it is normal for a light helicopter.

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  • 2 weeks later...

A very interesting discussion and a fantastic video from CHPL that has inspired quite a lot of people to persist with and some (like me) to purchase the model. Many thanks for the video, I'm having fun experimenting with the different parameters. Hopefully the Polychop update will arrive soon we'll see what that brings.

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  • 1 month later...

Being able to fly with or without curves etc is a personal thing.

It may only rely on one's experience with flying any Sim.

On the other hand and vastly more importantly (IMO) is the Hotas you are using.

Each Hotas has it's strengths and weaknesses when compared to each other.

 

I have now flown the Gazelle (and all my other Modules) with 2 different Hotas setups. X-55 Rhino + CH Pro Pedals and later and currently with VKB Gunfighter MkII MCG Pro + Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle + CH Pro Pedals.

 

These are COMPLETELY different setups with equally different responses. The VKB is a very sensitive and smooth stick compared to X-55. But it also is completely customizable for different tensions and center/neutral detente or no detente.

 

Never mind what others are doing. You must use what you have and experience what you will to determine whether or not Curves etc are right for your setup and your experience. Maybe you need those settings only while learning and then dampen them down later. Or maybe they will always be needed.

 

Personally, I did some research, including watching a specific video (previously mentioned) to see how the REAL Gazelle works and how much stick deflection there is in the real aircraft under normal use. I "tuned" my stick to reflect that reality and then learned how to fly most effectively. That is what worked for me. It may not work for anyone else. And I'm fine with that.

Do whatever you feel is right for your enjoyment. Don't be afraid to experiment to get the most enjoyment. Your setup isn't just like everyone else's setup and so your experience will be different from most others too.

SnowTiger:joystick:

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Being able to fly with or without curves etc is a personal thing.

It may only rely on one's experience with flying any Sim.

On the other hand and vastly more importantly (IMO) is the Hotas you are using.

Each Hotas has it's strengths and weaknesses when compared to each other.

 

I have now flown the Gazelle (and all my other Modules) with 2 different Hotas setups. X-55 Rhino + CH Pro Pedals and later and currently with VKB Gunfighter MkII MCG Pro + Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle + CH Pro Pedals.

 

These are COMPLETELY different setups with equally different responses. The VKB is a very sensitive and smooth stick compared to X-55. But it also is completely customizable for different tensions and center/neutral detente or no detente.

 

Never mind what others are doing. You must use what you have and experience what you will to determine whether or not Curves etc are right for your setup and your experience. Maybe you need those settings only while learning and then dampen them down later. Or maybe they will always be needed.

 

Personally, I did some research, including watching a specific video (previously mentioned) to see how the REAL Gazelle works and how much stick deflection there is in the real aircraft under normal use. I "tuned" my stick to reflect that reality and then learned how to fly most effectively. That is what worked for me. It may not work for anyone else. And I'm fine with that.

Do whatever you feel is right for your enjoyment. Don't be afraid to experiment to get the most enjoyment. Your setup isn't just like everyone else's setup and so your experience will be different from most others too.

That's a great post. And btw, tune your joystick is part of the joy, isn't it?

Chinook lover - Rober -

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Being able to fly with or without curves etc is a personal thing.

It may only rely on one's experience with flying any Sim.

On the other hand and vastly more importantly (IMO) is the Hotas you are using.

Each Hotas has it's strengths and weaknesses when compared to each other.

 

I have now flown the Gazelle (and all my other Modules) with 2 different Hotas setups. X-55 Rhino + CH Pro Pedals and later and currently with VKB Gunfighter MkII MCG Pro + Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle + CH Pro Pedals.

 

These are COMPLETELY different setups with equally different responses. The VKB is a very sensitive and smooth stick compared to X-55. But it also is completely customizable for different tensions and center/neutral detente or no detente.

 

Never mind what others are doing. You must use what you have and experience what you will to determine whether or not Curves etc are right for your setup and your experience. Maybe you need those settings only while learning and then dampen them down later. Or maybe they will always be needed.

 

Personally, I did some research, including watching a specific video (previously mentioned) to see how the REAL Gazelle works and how much stick deflection there is in the real aircraft under normal use. I "tuned" my stick to reflect that reality and then learned how to fly most effectively. That is what worked for me. It may not work for anyone else. And I'm fine with that.

Do whatever you feel is right for your enjoyment. Don't be afraid to experiment to get the most enjoyment. Your setup isn't just like everyone else's setup and so your experience will be different from most others too.

 

can you post your vkb gunfighter settings for the gazelle? and what cam and springs are you using? thanks

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Excellent post from SnowTiger.

 

Never mind what others are doing. You must use what you have and experience what you will to determine whether or not Curves etc are right for your setup and your experience. Maybe you need those settings only while learning and then dampen them down later. Or maybe they will always be needed.

 

Very true.

 

Even for an identical controller, things like the position of the chair, the frame rate of the simulator, the field of view of the monitor, and personal preference will result in differences to the needed curve settings.

 

On the other hand, knowing what settings others are using (especially if they are using something similar to you), will help give and idea of what to change and a starting point from whence to experiment. (For reference, my settings are here: link)

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  • 6 months later...
Hello, in fact the FM has a LOT of problems...

Polychop is supposed to work on that but they are now focused on their next helo and don't want to loose time with the Gazelle because they won't earn money anymore with it....

I have worked with Polychop trying to help them to fix the big FM issues. I performed a test flight with them and I exposed 4 big issues in the FM which are nonsense for a helo.

 

Just try something: you fly the Gazelle at 100km/h and apply a 2cm right input on your stick and maintain it. The Gazelle is never stopping rolling on the right!!!!!!! THIS IS THE FIRst BIG ISSUE. They have coded the FM without considering that it's a helicopter!!!!!

À steady x cm displacement of the cyclic is equal to a steady roll angle IRL for the Gazelle and the Fennec and the Puma etc.... (I only fly on French helo IRL)

 

I am fed up with working with them now. I flew the Gazelle 150hours IRL when starting to learn to fly 15 years ago. Now I have 3000h of fight and still continue to fly every day IRL.

I have asked some current Gazelle pilots to join me in order to help Polychop but Polychop seems to be deaf.

 

When I read that ALAT Pilots told the FM was good I really want to meet them because we are a lot of French helo pilots (French air force and Alat) to find the Polychop Gazelle sooooooo bad with the FM and sooooo unrealistic.

 

I you want to fly a helicopter which seems to be realistic, take a look at the MI8. We are having a lot of fun to fly it. Only the Vortex seems to be overrated. IRL With the MI8 in DCS, the Vortex is binary coded.... But apart from this weird behavior with Vortex, the MI8 is realistic enough.

 

I would love to fly the Gazelle in DCS but it's impossible today for real pilot to have fun with it in a simulation. Perhaps in arcade mode it would be fun, but we are playing DCS for simulation experience

Thanks for your experienced input. I have just bought the gazelle dcs in 2020. Has it improved. If not can you post your axis tweaks that you have found helps make it more realistic? Would be much appreciated!

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can you post your vkb gunfighter settings for the gazelle? and what cam and springs are you using? thanks

 

Hi River. I apologize for not getting back to you with my VKB settings.

The fact is that between DCS's constantly broken modules and updates that do more damage than good along with PolyChops apparent abandonment of the Gazelle (leaving it essentially busted), I just got tired of it.

I have flown DCS for 10 years and just got sick of the BS. I didn't spend a ton of money to be their tester. When I buy software, I want and expect it to work, not be a perpetual work-in-progress.

 

As such, I packed it in last June or July 2019. With the exception of 2 - 1hr flights (about 2 months apart) which only pissed me off more, I have not flown or even opened DCS.

More recently my PC puked and required a complete re-installation of Win10 (I would have NEVER upgraded to Win10 had it not been for DCS. I had a super stable system with Win7).

I have since installed DCS but I haven't bothered with any of the peripheral software, including for my VKB, or Throttles or TrackIR or Peddles etc. I just can't be bothered.

Several years of absolute frustration has sucked the desire right out of me so badly that I don't even know that I will EVER go back to DCS let alone any other Flight Sim.

 

So I won't have anything for you re: VKB or anything else ... at least none too soon. I'm apt to just sell everything and cut my losses with DCS module investments.

I pay to have fun. Not to be someone's sucker tester for modules that have been in production for YEARS and are still no where near finished. So I'll either find some other exciting Sim or I'll pack it in for good and go back to FPS which I would have NEVER even thought of but had to to fill in a blank I suffered when Jane's stopped producing Flight Sims (Games). I used to live for flying. Now it just contributes to my depression. Who Needs That ?

SnowTiger:joystick:

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I had had something like a 45 Y. I have now taken all curves and dead zones out of my Warthog HOTAS and the Gazelle flies like a dream is very responsive and much easier to get in auto hover. When I first got it a year ago I was all over the sky like a drunk driver. I don't no if flight model has improved in last few months or I have just gotten use to it

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Window 10, i9-9900,2080TI, 32GB ram Puma Pro Flight Trainer, 2 x 1TB WB SSD NVMe HP Reverb

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I am fed up with working with them now. I flew the Gazelle 150hours IRL when starting to learn to fly 15 years ago. Now I have 3000h of fight and still continue to fly every day IRL.

I have asked some current Gazelle pilots to join me in order to help Polychop but Polychop seems to be deaf.

 

 

It would be interesting to find out why you were fed up working with Polychop. "I have asked some current Gazelle pilots to join me in order to help Polychop but Polychop seems to be deaf." -> Whether that was the only reason ...

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DCS World needs the Panavia Tornado! Really!

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