Can someone explain the armor model of vehicles ? - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 02-20-2020, 10:09 AM   #11
zhukov032186
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No, it was from a couple weeks ago. I was testing CA to see if it was something my brother would be interested in. Not disputing your results, but I dunno. I pumped round after round into the hull side, and hit the side or top of the turret with the ATGM.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
No, it was from a couple weeks ago. I was testing CA to see if it was something my brother would be interested in. Not disputing your results, but I dunno. I pumped round after round into the hull side, and hit the side or top of the turret with the ATGM.


1st: ATGM shot to the side, leave the tank at 10%
2nd: Finish off tank hit with ATGM, from 500+ meters with AP
3rd: Kill another T-55, solely using AP from same distance
4th: One shot a T-55 with the more modern ATGM on the BMP-3
5th: Demonstrate how many bullets it takes to kill a T-55, with the BMP-3 AP cannon (which is the same as the BMP-2 cannon, but it has better stabilization
6th: Kill a T-55 with the 30mm AP from the BMP-2 at a range of >=1000meters
7th: Demonstrate a ricochet on the side of a modern MBT

Funnily enough, you can damage and destroy even some of the modern MBTs by shooting them at the side, even with HE. You can see right at the end, I shot the side of the challenger by accident and it actually took damage, indicated by the smoke he released....

I did try shooting all the tanks there, there was 3 from all of them which took damage and you need almost all your AP to kill them, from the side.... angles matter too
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:27 PM   #13
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So, I pretty much spent couple of hours testing AI in a 2v2 scenario long range....

In general the Abrams dominates the closer you get (talking engaging frontally)

All AI were set to High skill (one lower than Excellent)

Interestingly enough, at long range I would say the battles were pretty balanced for the most part, I would say 60/40 for the Abrams.... except vs. the LeClerc, that got killed everytime for some reason, even tho in earlier tests, there were some occasions, where it was bouncing everything.

Seems like all tanks have the same engagement range for AP, around 3200 meters. The T-90 (72/80) and the Chinese tank (which pretty much mimics the T-90 in-game, with maybe slightly less armor) have an advantage outside that range, because they use ATGMs. With ATGMs they can out-range the Abrams and disable it, pretty much leaving it at 10% and finishing it off.

Once they reach the AP engagement range, they always switch to AP, where they loose to the Abrams. Although able to bounce on some occasion, more often than not, they would loose out in the AP battle. You can't force the AI to use ATGMs, once they are inside AP range, which is a shame, because if taken with manual control, you could easily still take the upper hand over the Abrams with the ATGM.

Merkava was another interesting one... shouldn't it be able to use ATGMs as well ? When left to the AI, they would loose almost all the time and pretty quick for that matter, but with manual control, as long as you get an accurate shot, 5 out 5 shots for me were one hit one kill on the Abrams (3200 meters).

The Leopard 2 and the Challenger 2 were the most interesting battles, getting the closest to that balanced fight, where it was really a 50/50 who would win, with the Challenger 2 doing just slightly better than the Leopard (enough to notice it).

There were battles, where both sides would shoot 10s of rounds of AP and you could just see how they bounce of each other... even got a battle or two, where they ran out of AP.

From distance, it really does come down to positioning and the element of surprise... the tank which is the better position and shoots first would win, with again... the Abrams having an advantage in general, but if you catch it on the side, unless you miss... you got him one shot.

The Chinese tank, as I mentioned, pretty much behaves as a T-90 with its ATGM and I might be wrong, but it seemed to have a sightly less survivability
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:02 PM   #14
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I don't know. I was already frustrated dealing with the controls and some weird view issues then when that happened I just threw my hands in the air. I will retest later, your results sound consistent.

I don't know how more favorable it could be than point blank on the side, level ground. I rounded a building on him and it didn't respond for ten plus seconds while I layed into him with everything I had.

Thank you for the time you devoted to this. I will look into it.

-edit
Do ATGMs have a minimum range in this thing? It's possible it didn't arm, which would have yielded the results I got
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:28 PM   #15
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It is known thing that damage modeling is very simple in DCS at this moment, it works for OK expectations but it is nowhere near trustworthy or semi-realistic.

Meaning that you need to wait that the new damage model goes first to WW2 aircrafts, and then it comes to ground units, eventually to other aircrafts.

There you will get a far more complex damage modeling.



That is WIP picture of the damage modeling there is. So you might expect to see something similar to ground units.

I don't like here, but you can go to check other games damage models for the ground vehicles, where you get idea that what to expect in DCS World.

It truly is not easy job at all, takes fairly long time for each different 3D model and then for each variant to be adjusted etc.

But when it comes, it should be very very much more impressive.
And when finally we get fragmentation effects for the bombs etc. We should start to see far more interesting results against unarmored targets etc.
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:16 AM   #16
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I would say it is already pretty advanced for the basic level it uses.

Bouncing off, ricochets, weak spots, first stage ammo, second stage ammo, AI reacting slower, not being able to go full speed or not being able to fire at all when heavily damaged ...

I would say that what they would benefit the most from right now is a more advanced AI: in regards to movement and engagement and what weapon they use when.

The other thing which would be the second best or tied with the AI update, would be more adequate controls, possibility to back up without doing a 180.

@Zhukov: Yeah, I know it is pretty janky the whole thing, but once you get used to it, it has a lot of potential. There aren't that many controls. The one I would recommend to remap is the zoom one, by default you have the toggle zoom binded and that's pretty annoying. Everything else is up to personal preference. If you need any help or advice hit me up with a question here.

In general, the potential which CA has is enormous, you can have a lot of fun driving around against other people as well as creating co-op mission where you have to work with people in the air to accomplish an objective. CA has the potential to be that ARMA/DCS mix people have been dreaming off (with mostly vehicles tho, not infantry).

At the end of the day, is CA basic and janky and sometimes quite annoying ? Definitely !

Can you have tons of fun with it still ? 100% !
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:01 AM   #17
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Shadow KT, out of curiosity, what skill level were your AI units set to in your testing?

ATGMs - I hate them. They can be brutal from any angle in my experience.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:17 AM   #18
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Are you asking about my tank tests ?

Take a look at the post again, third row, "High"

ATGMs can be nasty and very effective, but they are not all the same and do not have the same effects.

You can see that in my BMP-2 video. The BMP-2 ATGM left the T-55 at 10%, which means it can't shoot its main gun (or at least the AI wouldn't shoot it) and its engine was damaged (huge reduction in speed).

The BMP-3 ATGM on the other hand one shot it, as it was a more modern one.
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Old 02-22-2020, 03:00 PM   #19
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Missed that, thanks. Nice work!
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Old 02-23-2020, 09:36 PM   #20
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1. T-90 also has ATGM's
2. You can back up without doing a 180. Just put your gear into revese

Or am I missing something?

Interesting discussion guys. I do love me some CA
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