AI vs player Detection ? what makes them tick ?

So more testing and building here and come across a small snag.

Flight of 2 aircraft on CAP......in a controlled test environment, ie deliberately nothing else on the map to influence detection logic ( I think at least )

At 100 Miles out and to the rear of the flight I enter a trigger zone which flips the flight from weapons hold to weapons free, it needs to be set this way I want the flight to respect the country borders and not merely engage any aircraft they detect !

For the first 20 miles of closure maybe the AI flight continues on their waypoints, seemingly oblvious to my presence, as expected, no way their radar can see me at 80 miles away to their rear. Suddenly the AI switches on and diverts to intercept me in typical AI fashion, hard turn, afterburners lit and climb........

How can the AI see me ? I was conducting this test to see if I was going to need to include some EWR or maybe AWACS for the AI , clearly they don't seem to need it ? There is an S300 site in their area, are they relaying contact maybe? (despite the fact I had killed the S300 tracking radar and Search Radar ?)

Just trying to understand what is making the AI tick so I can try and control it fully ?

Thanks.

(is it possible they detected my radar emissions even tho I wasn't physically actively painting them with radar for example ? I was in an F18 they were in Mig21's)

I don't know much about the MiG21 (I don't own the module), but if they have any kind radar warning system, they'll pick up your radar from a long distance. You don't have to lock them; any kind of radar emissions from you is enough to set off the RWR. Again...assuming the MiG21 has something like that.

Try it again with your radar off and I would expect a different outcome. Of course, this is DCS AI, so I have no idea what they do. If this isn't some dynamic mission, then I would keep a tight rein on the AI and force them not to react until you want them to.

I don't know much about the MiG21 (I don't own the module), but if they have any kind radar warning system, they'll pick up your radar from a long distance. You don't have to lock them; any kind of radar emissions from you is enough to set off the RWR. Again...assuming the MiG21 has something like that.

 

Try it again with your radar off and I would expect a different outcome. Of course, this is DCS AI, so I have no idea what they do. If this isn't some dynamic mission, then I would keep a tight rein on the AI and force them not to react until you want them to.

Yep, just confirmed in my last test flight, almost certainly gave them an RWR spike, I sat behind them at low altitude with radar in standby for ages and they never flinched, as soon as I lit up the radar it was clear it eventually spiked their RWR and they turned to engage, was a good fight actually as well lol.

This is the whole reason I have been doing so much testing lately with ROE and things like this, so I know exactly what my constraints are, for the reasons you said.

Next test.......going to drop in a couple of EWR into the area and see if that talks to the AI planes or not....if anyone knows the answer and you care to save me some time feel free to say :)

Good to see using standby on the radar actually makes a difference, another thing I can confirm is that terrain masking worked to shake them off as well, they disengaged after a while after I was playing in the weeds behind some mountains etc :)

Be nice if we could get some insight into the AI in regards to the above topic, so at least I could understand how to make various units interact with each other. Last test I just did with a now added EWR seemed inconclusive.

I do know however that if you add an AWACs into the area there is no hiding, you can hide from the planes but the AWACS relays to the AI planes.....as expected. I am hopeful I can get this working with ground based solutions like EWR maybe ?

Next test.......going to drop in a couple of EWR into the area and see if that talks to the AI planes or not....if anyone knows the answer and you care to save me some time feel free to say :)

yes, EWRs do reveal your position to AI planes. SAM radars do not.

yes, EWRs do reveal your position to AI planes. SAM radars do not.

Do I need to link them in any particular way ? or are they simply "side" dependant ?

Do all models with the term "EWR" perform as expected ?

Thanks, really appreciate your feedback.

For AI, there is a magic link with radars. There was an example of creeping up on a Mig from behind and below, but I've never been in a position to execute that on a mission without some other radar giving me up. CAP tends to go wild in unbeleivable ways. AI seems to share a datalink type knowledge. This isnt a documented part of DCS. Turning ROE off is an established way of preventing over zelous behaviour and is used with all its disadvantages in many scripts.

For AI, there is a magic link with radars. There was an example of creeping up on a Mig from behind and below, but I've never been in a position to execute that on a mission without some other radar giving me up. CAP tends to go wild in unbeleivable ways. AI seems to share a datalink type knowledge. This isnt a documented part of DCS. Turning ROE off is an established way of preventing over zelous behaviour and is used with all its disadvantages in many scripts.

Yes, I have done a tone of testing with this in mind previously, occasionally tho they still seem to react when there is zero chance they should know I am there, below and behind scenario......I have had success doing that tho, in to around 3 to 5 miles....

Sneaking up on the AI was possible just recently, here is a MiG-29 (radar off, thermal on) sneaking up on an "Excellent" AI F-15:

Sneaking up on the AI was possible just recently, here is a MiG-29 (radar off, thermal on) sneaking up on an "Excellent" AI F-15:

Good stuff thanks, all useful info.

So in theory I could place an EWR in that area and as long as it is in range it would then ping the F15 by DCS Magic that I am there, perfect, makes it worth actually placing and planning EWR's :)