How to kill FFG neutrashimy with Agm-64f?

Im stuck on a mission on the F-18 over PG DCE. I am tasked with taking out the FFG Neurtashimy. But i cannot get a lock with my Mavericks before i get sa-15s send my way& ultimatly run out of spoofs and get killed every time. And the fact that the ship takes about 4 mavg,s to sink her doesnt really help either. Any ideas how to sink this Maggot?

Wait for Harpoon or ATFLIR and GBU-24?

Wait for Harpoon or ATFLIR and GBU-24?

Yeah thats seems to be the only solution..

warships do not sink easily. Perhaps that is modeled. I would think a Maverick wouldn't be a kill shot for something that has water-tight compartments and damage control. Assuming that is taken into account.

Watch any video of a SINK-EX and you will see warships with no damage control parties and likely all water-tight compartments prepared- they tend to take multiple bomb and missile hits and a torpedo to finally send them below.

The USS Cole was hammered by a suicide boat in 2000 which was signifigantly more powerful than a puny Maverick warhead and it still stayed afloat.

warships do not sink easily. Perhaps that is modeled. I would think a Maverick wouldn't be a kill shot for something that has water-tight compartments and damage control. Assuming that is taken into account.

 

Watch any video of a SINK-EX and you will see warships with no damage control parties and likely all water-tight compartments prepared- they tend to take multiple bomb and missile hits and a torpedo to finally send them below.

 

The USS Cole was hammered by a suicide boat in 2000 which was signifigantly more powerful than a puny Maverick warhead and it still stayed afloat.

Yes offcourse. I was planning to send 4 mav F,s its way. But the problem is that i cant get close enought without Being blown out of the Sky before i Get a lock on the FFG. Without any other long range standoff weapon option? Its simply impossible to kill.

Ingress on the deck and pop up.

Take a tanker as target instead

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Im stuck on a mission on the F-18 over PG DCE. I am tasked with taking out the FFG Neurtashimy. But i cannot get a lock with my Mavericks before i get sa-15s send my way& ultimatly run out of spoofs and get killed every time. And the fact that the ship takes about 4 mavg,s to sink her doesnt really help either. Any ideas how to sink this Maggot?

Next patch will increase the AGM-65F lock ranges against ships. Maybe try again then? :)

OR

Fly higher than 24k feet to avoid SA-15 engagement zone and dive on the ship?

It wouldn't be realistic to get the job done even with 4 AGM-65Fs on a ship that size. I was once involved in a SINKEX where the target was a retired Coast Guard Medium Endurance Cutter about a third of the size of Neustrashimy. All told, it took 4 war shot Harpoons, 2 Skippers, 2 cluster bombs, and 162 rounds of 5" to put the target on the bottom. That's more than 16,000 lbs of ordnance.

By comparison, your 4 AGM-65Fs offer about 1,200 lbs of explosives, and as you point out, you have to get them past those SA-N-9s (Navalised SA-15s).

Bring friends. Bring lots of friends.

The Mav is best used against smaller gunboats. It just doesn't have the range to launch outside of the SAM range of most larger ships. Will have to wait for the Harpoon.

I can't help but feel that flying a Hornet straight towards a armed warship with the intent to shoot a few Mavericks at it is kinda a flawed idea from the start. It is the kind of thing that you are certainly free to attempt and that is one of the advantages of doing such things in a sim versus reality but if you are hoping for a result that does not include getting shot down by surface to air missiles, I think you may need to start looking at this scenario from a real-world doctrine point of view.

To be blunt, if you want to sink a warship, there is more to it than just strapping some mavericks to a plane. You are going to want to consider the larger picture. You are going to want to think about supporting assets (friendly naval forces), using the correct weapon for the job (probably a Harpoon), and even multiple flights/wing-mates that can also launch their weapons at the same time.

At this point, it is probably best to leave Mavericks to smaller, less heavily armed ships and leave the warships to platforms that are actually configured to fight them properly.

...it's an exercise in futility. Not much has changed since 1973. Still a terrible horrible no good very bad idea in 2018 without the Harpoon..

Truth.

In the early-to-mid 90's when I was an Over-The-Horizon Targeting guy, we had a matrix showing how many Harpoons or TASMs it would take to score a mission kill, a mobility kill, and a K-kill for each opposition ship by class. There was a point where K-kill went off the charts into "How many missiles you got?" territory.

For an idea of what effect you might have an Neustrashimy with a Maverick, take a look at what happened to USS Stark when she was hit by two Exocet missiles without defending herself.

Two Exocet AM39s would be 724 pounds of total warhead weight, or about 2 1/2 times that of an AGM-65F. It was a long night for Stark's well-trained crew, and for a while it was by no means certain that she wouldn't burn to the waterline. Survive she did, though, and she was able to steam under her own power to Bahrain for initial repairs.

An Exocet did sink HMS Sheffield during the Falklands War. In that case, the firefighting and electrical systems were damaged, and even though the warhead didn't detonate, the subsequent fires eventually forced the crew to abandon. She remained afloat for 6 days, and finally sank in heavy seas while being towed for repairs. A later inquest determined that Sheffield's missile defences were inadequate.

I once spent a night aboard a Russian destroyer, and was shocked at the poor condition of her firefighting equipment. My hosts told me that their ship was about on par with the rest of their fleet, so I'm inclined to think that Neustrashimy is likely to suffer from the same poor material condition that I witnessed. I'd be surprised to see her handle a missile hit as well as Stark did. I'd expect her to go the way of Sheffield...if indeed you could score a hit.

Which brings us back around to Neustrashimy's defensive capabilities, which are substantially better than Sheffield's -- it will take a lot of you to punch through those.

When I played around with taking out an SA-15 TLAR with LMAVs in DCS, I found that he'd shoot two missiles for every pass I made: one at my Maverick and one at me, timed to intercept at about max SA-15 range (6.5 miles). If you're quick, you might get to Mavericks off on a pass, but it's risky. You don't want to be inside his range ring.

If Neustrashimy does the same thing, your 4 AGM-65Fs will take you 4 passes, and lead him to shoot 8 SA-N-9s. He carries a total of 32, so it doesn't take much math to ballpark your mission kill sortie requirement at 5 Hornets with 4 Mavericks each.

(As I said, bring lots of friends.)

There might be a more elegant solution than my sledgehammer approach, but there it is.

Personally, against SA-15's, i prefer to fly at about 10,000 feet, then put them on the 3 or 9 o'clock when they fire and dive. This dumps the missile into the deck every time. Don't even need any "spoofs" for this... rinse and repeat until they're out of missiles or catch them reloading. Works against Tor's... never tried against a boat.

Forgive my ignorance. New to bombing.

I find the Es excellent when someone can lase.

I find the Fs worthless for me as they do not lock (for me).

But what I'm hearing is they are too "lite" an ordinance for the job your discussing.

Why not MK 84s x 4 ?

Still may take at least 4 hornets ?

 

Why not MK 84s x 4 ?

Those will work great against a target that isn't defending itself.

At least according to (ever-so-trustworthy) wikipedia, Neustrashimy class ship also have Kashtan CIWS, in addition to the naval TOR.

Kashtan is kind of like a tunguska, it has the same missiles, but the guns are much more powerful, being two 30mm, 6 barrel rotary cannons.

Not sure if DCS Neustrashimy have them but, you may need lots and lots of proper anti ship missiles.

Even if the ship runs out of both TOR and Tunguska missiles, the guns themselves still have a pretty decent chance of shooting a singular missile out of the sky.

As for the Mk 84s, well if you can get that close to a thing which missiles can not, they may perhaps do some serious damage.

Those will work great against a target that isn't defending itself.

Or moving.

I haven't done much anti-ship in DCS, so I don't know what they're capable of in terms of evasion, but I imagine that at the very least you'd need her to be going slowly and in a straight line, and for them to be laser guided at the very least.

When the hornet wasn‘t out yet I was flying the Viggen a lot in a huge, self-made anti-ship SP mission. The target was the Kuznestov carrier accompanied by the Moskva cruiser and the Neutrashemiy and one tanker. A pretty capable and very well defended battle group.

I flew that mission at least 20 or 30 times (often to refine my AI assets to achieve a near simultaneous engagment of the red battle group). Blue side were 4 divisons of F/A-18C (yes, 16 Hornets:)), each jet loaded with 4 Harpoons. Plus 1 flight of 4 Tornados with 2 Sea Eagles each and then two flights of Viggens (one was my flight) with 4 Viggens each loaded with 2 Rb-15Fs. You do the math and see that in the end, provided all fired and not went defensive too early (red launched some Flankers off the Kuznetsov) there were 88 (!) high precision anti-ship missiles running in on the carrier group. Still, more than often the Kuznetsov survived, sometimes even the Moskva as well. When the anti-ship missiles survived the SAMs lobbed at them, which was rare anyway, they got neutralized by the CIWS systems onboard the red ships. I really had to overwhelm them by the sheer number of missiles to get a few hits. The Kuznetsov can take more than 5 Harpoons and still be afloat, I don‘t remember the exact number of hits it took to sink it which I (or AI respectively) managed only a few times.

So, in a nutshell, you don‘t sink a warship in DCS easily by just a few missiles. It takes a very well coordinated attack of many assets to achieve that. An Iranian boghammar is something different though but we don‘t have these in DCS yet (armed speedboat is as close as you can get and that is fine for me for the time).

FWIW, I have sometimes attacked ships near to the shore with tanks in CA and I found that if you snuck up and aimed right with your missiles, you could take out specific parts of the ship, like main guns, which would allow me to get into open view of the ship and sink it without fear of being obliterated. If a couple of HARMs could be lobbed at the ship to take out the radar, you might be able to get a little closer with mavs, or a high altitude bomb drop, and hit the missile batteries. Once the ship defences are down, you can pretty much do what you want.

FWIW, I have sometimes attacked ships near to the shore with tanks in CA and I found that if you snuck up and aimed right with your missiles, you could take out specific parts of the ship, like main guns, which would allow me to get into open view of the ship and sink it without fear of being obliterated. If a couple of HARMs could be lobbed at the ship to take out the radar, you might be able to get a little closer with mavs, or a high altitude bomb drop, and hit the missile batteries. Once the ship defences are down, you can pretty much do what you want.

With all due respect, that sounds a bit like wishful thinking.

If the battle group includes the Pyotr Velikiy or the Moskva, say hello to a barrage of naval S-300s coming your way on that high altitude bombing run. Against a single Neustrashimy, may be you can bomb from above the naval TOR range though.

As for the taking out the radar, well, which radar? Even if you take out the main radar, as far as I know each Kashtan CIWS battery has its own radar in addition to the ship's radar, so if attacking from a single direction, they can still keep looking where the missile came from and intercept more missiles coming from there.

Ship defenses can take out supersonic missiles like granit, bazalt, moskit etc. A lobbed HARM will probably be subsonic when it gets there, and I think they'll get intercepted too.

I really think taking out modern, or even semi-modern ships would take a well concerted and gigantic attack.

Although, I do remember sneaking up to ships from VERY low altitude and evenually sinking them with Su-25T with a friend, years ago. We probably shouldn't have been able to but, sometimes things work in DCS, not sure if it'd work now.

We lots a lot of frogfoots though :P

If you could safely get into range, I’d still be surprised if you could successfully sink a modern frigate with a single aircraft. Most likely way to get a kill would be to swamp the defences with a barrage of missiles or bombs.