a plea- to reconsider giving alpha/beta access for wwii planes to backers

somehow, i am slightly disappointed when knowing exactly, that all the ED testers have already access to the upcoming warbirds(like the 109 maybe even already the spit) while they may or may not have backed the project 1year ago, while this was one big reason for me to back the project.to get early access, watch the developement and evolvement of planes, and also beeing able to help in spotting bugs, helping development somehow.

i do not really understand EDs decision on this.i know normally they prefer to have only their testers to have access to "alpha"/beta products in developement, but this was one promise(i know by luthier) which made certainly not only me, but many other backers pledge to a certain amount, or maybe even influenced the decision on whether backing the project at all...

giving the backers early access to planes wouldnt cost ED a penny, and if at all, could speed up the bug hunting.also, the backers would get the feeling of beeing appreciated and seeing the benefit of their decision 1year ago to back the project.

right now, there doesnt seem to be much of a benefit. knowing that some testers already happily fly with a 109 while certainly not all of them have backed the project, and me sitting here watching screenshots and thinking "what if" is killing me.

please ED reconsider your approach on this at least for the other upcoming planes.

/\ +1

You said it already yourself: a promise made by someone else.

And still, you will be able to help hunting bugs: during the beta phase.

I know that you have something differently in mind when you say "early access", but I think, the organizing of such an early access would not come for free for ED. They simply can not throw any random alpha version every couple of days at us people who are not familar with the way ED internally does things. So the stuff has to be prepared in some - ever so slightly - way. You saw what happened when some not-so-stable built was released a few weeks ago ...

And, who says that they want bugs found faster during development? I.e. who says, that the ED tester team isn't already swamping the devs with bug reports? ;o)

I don't care about early access, as I'm not interested in testing an unfinished module.

Luthier was rather reluctant to give Alpha / Beta access, iirc. His promise to do so was for giving the KS momentum, not because he necessarily thought it was a good idea.

DavidRed is just expressing his enthusiasm for the new Bf 109.:wub:

He's probably spent hundreds or thousands on therapy to talk out his November angst:crazy:, so cut him some slack.

as a backer, I am just grateful ED stepped in and saved the whole thing.

as a tester thats easy to say i guess while testing the 109 and god knows what else, all in edge :)

oh and yes, i stated several times in several threads that im just as grateful as you about the project continuing.i never backed luthier but ED for this project to come true.

DavidRed is just expressing his enthusiasm for the new Bf 109.

He's probably spent hundreds or thousands on therapy to talk out his November angst, so cut him some slack.

:)

I hope we *don't* get alpha or beta access to be honest.

I'm getting sick of reading complaints about missing features in products that are a work in progress because some people don't understand what alpha or beta actually means, or because they're not aware they've bought an alpha/beta.

This isn't a pop at this forum, as it happens all over the place now, but I'd much rather see a complete product launch for DCS, rather than have the forums populated with questions where the response is "It's a WIP due to alpha/beta".

I know that if I ever get in to game development and release my own games, if I were to release a beta I'll be charging a premium it and keeping it quiet just to try and cut out the dross.

Just my personal take on things: Cut the whole ED tester thing, cut the NDA, make everything open beta.

Its not that easy. Nor would it be very smart... believe it or not, the ED Tester level actually busts a lot of bugs, most you guys dont see, nor do you want to see... the ED Tester level, closed beta if you will is a needed level, and when used properly makes it so you get fairly stable open beta releases.... 90% of people would not enjoy the closed beta level... it can have a number issues, the open beta releases are the earliest I would expect most would want to have to deal with.

This. Sure, we all want to experience the modules as soon as possible, some even want to help with bugs but, well this, basically.

i do not really understand EDs decision on this.i know normally they prefer to have only their testers to have access to "alpha"/beta products in developement, but this was one promise(i know by luthier) which made certainly not only me, but many other backers pledge to a certain amount, or maybe even influenced the decision on whether backing the project at all...

Like Sith said, you don't want our test builds. We don't just get 'alpha/beta access', we get builds of the entire world, sometimes with new features, sometimes with just fixes, that sometimes might not even start.

You don't just get Alpha/beta module access as a tester, and you're expected to do work. We don't sit around blasting each other in your favorite warplanes; we mostly run through checklists of items that need to be tested, and report what doesn't work.

giving the backers early access to planes wouldnt cost ED a penny, and if at all, could speed up the bug hunting.also, the backers would get the feeling of beeing appreciated and seeing the benefit of their decision 1year ago to back the project.

Nope, they'd just complain loudly about how broken their early access build is. There's an order of how things are done, and it exists for a reason.

right now, there doesnt seem to be much of a benefit. knowing that some testers already happily fly with a 109 while certainly not all of them have backed the project, and me sitting here watching screenshots and thinking "what if" is killing me.

I suspect you don't really understand what the testers do. You're conflating testing with early access to something that works and is playable and generally resembles the finished product. It's not quite like that. Testing takes a long time and it can be frustrating.

Like Sith said, you don't want our test builds. We don't just get 'alpha/beta access', we get builds of the entire world, sometimes with new features, sometimes with just fixes, that sometimes might not even start.

 

You don't just get Alpha/beta module access as a tester, and you're expected to do work. We don't sit around blasting each other in your favorite warplanes; we mostly run through checklists of items that need to be tested, and report what doesn't work.

 

 

 

Nope, they'd just complain loudly about how broken their early access build is. There's an order of how things are done, and it exists for a reason.

 

 

 

I suspect you don't really understand what the testers do. You're conflating testing with early access to something that works and is playable and generally resembles the finished product. It's not quite like that. Testing takes a long time and it can be frustrating.

funny you think to know what I want and dont want.

there will always be complainers, but some will appreciate that its alpha, and help with bug hunting.

thx, i do understand what Ed testers are doing, and i am well aware of the difference between testing and gaming.thx again!

I'm getting sick of reading complaints about missing features in products that are a work in progress because some people don't understand what alpha or beta actually means, or because they're not aware they've bought an alpha/beta.

Yup, you are your own example :P you apparently don't know what alpha/beta is. Check the link below so you can learn a little bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta

Beta, named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet, is the software development phase following alpha. It generally begins when the software is feature complete.

Nothing personnal ;) - and i do understand your frustration but I hope you will understand other customers frustration too.

I do agree with the staff - I'm not sure Alpha releases are really wanted.

Do not worry DavidRed, us testers are just as passionate as you are about the up coming aircraft.

But due to NDA we can not comment ;)

I doubt that anyones looking forward to the Bf109 as much as Davidred and I'd imagine that all Mustang pilots would like it kept in limbo for as long as possible.

Nobody would be forcing anyone to use alpha/beta client. Like nobody is forcing anybody right now.

Every time i read similiar topic like this i have a kind of a feeling that people want to just play product ASAP. In my oponion i really want to fly everything ASAP but i want to fly it MY WAY not the ED Testers way. I want to enjoy it not just to be the BUG HUNTER :joystick: So i have to wait for release, but release date would be nice :D

and some love what ED produces that much, that they not only want to enjoy the perfect end result, but also would like to be part of the "solution"

The theory put forth above that backers don't really want alpha build access is really quite silly considering many of them paid extra to get it.

Just sayin...

Now to the separate question of would they really want it after they saw it, well that's debatable, but we'll never know for sure since it's not going to happen.