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Old 11-08-2019, 04:45 PM   #81
NineLine
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Originally Posted by Arctander View Post
Hi - I'm talking about the core systems that need work mainly - TWS, AZ/EL, AACQ, TGP etc as those are of far more interest to me as a capability improvement for the Hornet than a weapon that is a step back in effectiveness from current weapons available (even though it is a step in the road to SLAM(ER) and I have to admit it's quite a fun weapon using MITL - note I posted a bug report for you with a track).

In my view it is the missing systems that needed work, not 'more weapons' which is why I am glad you have commented on the 'hard push' coming up. My point was that if that were to change for any reason and these things don't come to the Hornet by the end of Q1 - wouldn't you agree that that would be far too long a time frame to be waiting when, for example, TWS has been 'worked on' since July 1st, and by then I would have expected the F16 to have had it for some months...?
You can't cherry-pick and say no work is being done, because its not work that you wanted.
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:45 PM   #82
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No, but apparently you do.
Not so. I read your earlier post "That's your opinion that not everybody has to share." as I shouldn't have shared my opinion. If you meant that as not everyone has to agree with my opinion, that's fine and no offence meant or taken.
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:46 PM   #83
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Not so. I read your earlier post "That's your opinion that not everybody has to share." as I shouldn't have shared my opinion. If you meant that as not everyone has to agree with my opinion, that's fine and no offence meant or taken.
Yes, you're right.
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:47 PM   #84
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A lot of what you say is reasonable, but holding it against us that users are using the aircraft in situations such as MP servers doesn't seem like a fair knock against us. I mean you can simply remove it from missions until it's at a level you are comfortable using it. Saying no one should have it because some people don't like it in MP doesn't seem fair to all.

Its the same with Open Beta itself, because servers adopt Open Beta, it shouldn't be on us if your favourite server is down for a day or two because a crash was found, that is what Open Beta is for.

At the end of the day, Open Beta and Early Access are not for feature-complete things, they are an extension of our testing process. And saying, dont get Early Access or Open Beta in many cases is legit, they will have issues, they will be missing stuff, for everyone one person that is mad about it, there are 10 out there enjoying what they have, and helping report issues, which we hugely appreciate.
Thanks. I think that we all bear a part to play:
Users for bringing pressure on ED to deliver 'new plane number 23' - just look at the comments on heavy lift, more marine choppers, fully simulated Migs, F4, Bronco etc.
ED for releasing things into EA at a.... very very early stage...
Server owners for bowing to pressure and adding them.

I think that this would not be an issue if MP was given due consideration about the 'bar' for release - which I would suggest would include a working damage model and IFF.

It's not that I don't want people to have it because of the impact on MP, I WANT to be seeing things released straight to MP because they don't risk breaking the balance of the servers.
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:49 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by NineLine View Post
You can't cherry-pick and say no work is being done, because its not work that you wanted.
Then I will try to be clearer in my posts in future as to exactly what I am referring to.
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:56 PM   #86
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ED Devs back from their Caribian party cruise yet?
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:59 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by NineLine View Post
A lot of what you say is reasonable, but holding it against us that users are using the aircraft in situations such as MP servers doesn't seem like a fair knock against us. I mean you can simply remove it from missions until it's at a level you are comfortable using it. Saying no one should have it because some people don't like it in MP doesn't seem fair to all.

Its the same with Open Beta itself, because servers adopt Open Beta, it shouldn't be on us if your favourite server is down for a day or two because a crash was found, that is what Open Beta is for.

At the end of the day, Open Beta and Early Access are not for feature-complete things, they are an extension of our testing process. And saying, dont get Early Access or Open Beta in many cases is legit, they will have issues, they will be missing stuff, for everyone one person that is mad about it, there are 10 out there enjoying what they have, and helping report issues, which we hugely appreciate.
I agree with the above. ED has clearly stated what Stable is and what Open Beta is. The fact that a large part of the community can't wait and opts into OB isn't ED's problem. The fact that the servers choose to run OB isn't ED's problem. They can't control that, unless they disable MP for OB. The problem is that a lot of people without the patience for OB choose OB because it gets the new toys sooner. I've got OB because I want to try things early, sure, but I understand that I shouldn't expect everything to work correctly all the time and I try to help with bug reports when I have time.

Example: I got the Viper, had some fun with it, determined it's not there yet for me and I'm just back to the Hornet, no hard feelings. I'm not going to comment on whether the Viper should've been released now or later, or on EA timelines etc, that's another story. The point is that if something is incomplete and buggy for whatever reason on OB, I either accept it or switch to Stable (it's easy). If enough people wanted the servers running Stable, they would. It's the people that want OB, ED isn't forcing anyone.
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:59 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by NineLine View Post
So a new weapon and datalink pod isn't even considered a minimal update?
From July 2019 to now has not only a new weapon and a datalink pod..... about the "minimal" updates....
January to june 2019
- Added HARM delivery in the Self Protect mode
- MIDS with Link 16 datalink functionality
- Situational Awareness (SA) page basic functionality was added
- IFF was improved
- NCTR function was added
- HARM Target of Opportunity (SP/TOO) mode was added
- Added initial Latent Track While Scan (LTWS) mode
- JDAM initial implementation
- Added AGM-154A/C JSOW
- Added BRU-55A/A dual smart weapon rack
- Multi-Sensor Integration (MSI) added for LTWS radar submode
July 2019 to now
- PLID & STEP functions have been added on SA Page
- AA/ANQ-28 Litening Targeting Pod added
- AGM-84D Harpoon in BOL mode with POP maneuver implemented
- AGM-62 Walleye
- AWW-13 link pod
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:02 PM   #89
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SD is like an info bot when I need him, thanks SD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Dragon View Post
From July 2019 to now has not only a new weapon and a datalink pod..... about the "minimal" updates....
January to june 2019
- Added HARM delivery in the Self Protect mode
- MIDS with Link 16 datalink functionality
- Situational Awareness (SA) page basic functionality was added
- IFF was improved
- NCTR function was added
- HARM Target of Opportunity (SP/TOO) mode was added
- Added initial Latent Track While Scan (LTWS) mode
- JDAM initial implementation
- Added AGM-154A/C JSOW
- Added BRU-55A/A dual smart weapon rack
- Multi-Sensor Integration (MSI) added for LTWS radar submode
July 2019 to now
- PLID & STEP functions have been added on SA Page
- AA/ANQ-28 Litening Targeting Pod added
- AGM-84D Harpoon in BOL mode with POP maneuver implemented
- AGM-62 Walleye
- AWW-13 link pod
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:03 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Arctander View Post
Thanks. I think that we all bear a part to play:
Users for bringing pressure on ED to deliver 'new plane number 23' - just look at the comments on heavy lift, more marine choppers, fully simulated Migs, F4, Bronco etc.
ED for releasing things into EA at a.... very very early stage...
Server owners for bowing to pressure and adding them.

I think that this would not be an issue if MP was given due consideration about the 'bar' for release - which I would suggest would include a working damage model and IFF.

It's not that I don't want people to have it because of the impact on MP, I WANT to be seeing things released straight to MP because they don't risk breaking the balance of the servers.
Like you said, the issue rests mostly with the user base, at least as far as MP is concerned. Neither the Hornet or the Viper should've been allowed before they had a basic IFF, but both of them were and teamkilling was the name of the game. (Still happens, since some people either don't care about verifying their target or don't know how to use the systems, but that's another story...)
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