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Old 11-08-2019, 12:21 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Outlaw24 View Post
I agree at the current progression rate and the up coming holidays maybe Q1, 2020.
If the Hornet doesn't get significant system work before Q1 2020 - that could be 6 months it will have had minimal updates, and that to me would be absolutely unacceptable abuse of the 'EA' concept.
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:25 PM   #52
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If the Hornet doesn't get significant system work before Q1 2020 - that could be 6 months it will have had minimal updates, and that to me would be absolutely unacceptable abuse of the 'EA' concept.
Then just don't buy EA.
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:38 PM   #53
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Then just don't buy EA.
EA is a contract between me and ED for me to give money at time X for a completed project at time Y that has not been defined through EDs inability to plan.

If they had said 'it will take >two years to complete and we will in effect stop working on important systems for many months at a time to focus on another EA product' at Hornet EA launch you can absolutely bet I would not have given them ANY money at the time.

That they have deprioritised the product I gave them money for for this long is straining my patience enough as it is - all I am telling them is that for me extending that out another 3 months would be beyond the pale and be unjustifiable to me, as their consumer.

You may have the patience of a saint and allow ED to use resources you have in effect paid for to work on another EA Product instead of working on what you have paid for - but some of us expect ED to act in good faith towards completing their end of the transaction by not abusing the EA principle.
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:43 PM   #54
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Then just don't buy EA.
Great idea. Insult your customers and ignore the fact that frequent posts about EA and peoples' disappointment in it are evidence of an underlying issue that needs to be addressed.
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:56 PM   #55
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EA is a contract between me and ED for me to give money at time X for a completed project at time Y that has not been defined through EDs inability to plan.

If they had said 'it will take >two years to complete and we will in effect stop working on important systems for many months at a time to focus on another EA product' at Hornet EA launch you can absolutely bet I would not have given them ANY money at the time.

That they have deprioritised the product I gave them money for for this long is straining my patience enough as it is - all I am telling them is that for me extending that out another 3 months would be beyond the pale and be unjustifiable to me, as their consumer.

You may have the patience of a saint and allow ED to use resources you have in effect paid for to work on another EA Product instead of working on what you have paid for - but some of us expect ED to act in good faith towards completing their end of the transaction by not abusing the EA principle.
Yea, no. Sorry nope. Do you have a copy of this contract you entered into with ED? I can't seem to find any posts by ED that say "The Hornet will come out of EA in one, two, three, four, fifty years from this date." Maybe it's time to start your own company to compete with ED, you seem to have an idea of what the business model should look like.

Would you like ED to shutdown any and all aspects not related to the Hornet until the Hornet is complete? I mean work on NOTHING else besides the Hornet until it is finished? Not bug fixing, no new maps, no carrier, no nata? No of course you don't as that would be crazy.

From what I have seen and read, ED isn't some huge company like Activision or Sony Computer Entertainment. They have to work with what they got, people get moved around, project dates pushed forward and backward. I get where you are coming from in regards to EA but I think you are being unreasonable with some of your expectations. Yes any EA module should have priority to get fixed, but if they don't release new modules from time to time, the bills don't get paid. When that happens we are all screwed. I wish you could see the big picture just a little bit.
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:29 PM   #56
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There is nothing in the EULA that talks about EA status etc so 'fair expectation' must be used, combined with official statements ED make.

Nineline posted in the 'what is EA' that: 'Eagle Dynamics and all of our third parties strive to make this period as short as possible.' (https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...35&postcount=1)

Nineline then stated in a newsletter in FEBRUARY that: (for the Viper) 'progress has been good, and is in no way slowing down Hornet completion.' (https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=183)

I believe (but cannot find the post) that Wags doubled down on that in response to concerns raised on Reddit.

And for them to then say the following in the middle of September : 'In order to hit our Viper release window, we have very recently had to temporarily move a couple of the systems programmers from the Hornet onto the Viper for a short period.' https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=174

That that was two months ago (and counting) is bad enough, my post, again is pointing out that 'temporarily' is NOT a time frame that should be measured in months in an EA environment, and absolutely that 6 months would be categorically unacceptable.

You may not agree with that, that is your choice, but I think it is fair to say that there is an upswell of EDs consumers who are very concerned at these developments, and I can only hope that ED has listened richly and are acting upon this. Continuing to attempt to deflect these concerns on their behalf is not an activity that will in the long run help ED in my opinion.

Now, I've explained my opinion, you've expressed your opinion, and it's pretty clear that there is clear water between the two that won't be bridged.
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:31 PM   #57
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Yes any EA module should have priority to get fixed, but if they don't release new modules from time to time, the bills don't get paid. When that happens we are all screwed. I wish you could see the big picture just a little bit.
The problem is that a lot of people do see this big picture. I believe that every single person in these forums wants to see ED succeed. The fear is that the constant need/push of new EA releases will cause ED to dig itself into a deeper and deeper hole, as more and more work keeps piling up and the backlog increases. We're getting news about the Hind, with two released flagship modules being extremely far away from completion.

I believe that the community at large is not concerned about the Hornet specifically, but about the business model as a whole and what it means. Down the line, this can lead to further team fragmentation and even more delays. ED needs to find a better or more efficient way to pay the bills, unfortunately, whether this means higher module prices, subscription or something else.

I really believe that a lot of the current issues arise from that general need to push new modules at a frequency that doesn't allow other modules to be completed beforehand. ED is not the only one at fault here, of course. A large part of the community is always pushing for that, because not everyone cares about full functionality and they'd happily take an FC3 level F-22 if they could. ED is in a delicate position, trying to balance the needs of different parts of their customer base, the needs of their employees etc.
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:48 PM   #58
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Now, I've explained my opinion, you've expressed your opinion, and it's pretty clear that there is clear water between the two that won't be bridged.
I believe a bridge can be built anywhere as long as both sides try to listen and understand the other (don't have to agree). You clearly have tried to do that and I have as well. That said, I hope we all come out on the other said happy with the products we have purchased and get the answers we want. Clear skies to ya bud.

@Harker
Fair enough, can't really argue that point of view at all.
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:49 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Harker View Post
The problem is that a lot of people do see this big picture. I believe that every single person in these forums wants to see ED succeed. The fear is that the constant need/push of new EA releases will cause ED to dig itself into a deeper and deeper hole, as more and more work keeps piling up and the backlog increases. We're getting news about the Hind, with two released flagship modules being extremely far away from completion.

I believe that the community at large is not concerned about the Hornet specifically, but about the business model as a whole and what it means. Down the line, this can lead to further team fragmentation and even more delays. ED needs to find a better or more efficient way to pay the bills, unfortunately, whether this means higher module prices, subscription or something else.

I really believe that a lot of the current issues arise from that general need to push new modules at a frequency that doesn't allow other modules to be completed beforehand. ED is not the only one at fault here, of course. A large part of the community is always pushing for that, because not everyone cares about full functionality and they'd happily take an FC3 level F-22 if they could. ED is in a delicate position, trying to balance the needs of different parts of their customer base, the needs of their employees etc.
Well, the thing is if finishing modules or releasing complete ones from the start isn't profitable for ED they should rethink their development strategy and either stick to WWII warbirds or stuff like maps, ships, heck even offsprings like MAC and let 3rd parties do the full fidelity aircraft. I mean, if Razbam is doing way better than ED with active development and support you know things aren't going well. I would have been fine with the Viper if it were two separate teams but the same team working on two EA aircraft at the same time doesn't work out. Even HB bit off more than they could chew in terms of time management with the Viggen and F-14 being both in EA. My point being, if ED can't make profit sustaining EA modules for more than 1 year and actually finishing them as promised they should rethink their development strategies or allocate resources to increase the sizes of their respective teams in order to focus on only a few projects at every given time. Right now it seems like small teams are working on planes, choppers, maps, core game etc.
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:57 PM   #60
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They are in a precarious position alright, the financial model will need to change if this sort of cash grabbing is to be ended, and things planned out properly with sustainable income.

It's unavoidable..
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