Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods

Debolesis,

This (Mason) drawing of F-15 throttle can help you 3D print the missing cover for the left side switch.

BTW - In original SFS this switch - on the left side of left throttle - was wired as only one switch (both movement to from or back press the same button), add wires to separate these functions. :thumbup:

Side view of "BIC" HALL pot' assembly. This was a "ad-hoc" solution with available material, using R/C helicopter/airplanes linkage you get a more better look solution, but mine has no play. :)

Roadrunner,

If you are using MMjoy (arduino) card base the diode matrix in the original Mjoy16 one scheme - since MMjoy was based on original Mjoy8.

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=91043&stc=1&d=1385519789

EDIT - Here'' the Mjoy8 schematics (include matrix).

http://mercury13.tut.su/files/mjoy/Mjoy_2011.png

I think the diode placement before or after the switch dont cause problems, since his function is dont allow current in inverse way, to avoid "ghost"buttons typical of keyboard matrix with more that 3 key pressed simultaneous.

having opened it up I'm completely lost, I understand I will need to create a diode matrix, but from reading some posts here it appears that the throttle has 3 matrix's already: 2 4x1 matrix's & one 8x1 matrix.

 

this is where I get lost, how do I figure out the pinouts? have my multimeter set to mesure resistance but have so far only got one result from the three matrix' how do I figure out where ground is & the row/column layout?

The first error that people made in joystick (USB) re-wire is trying understand and use the original gameport circuits/matrix.

Forget this, this was done for specific (gameport) controller, make your own matrix based on you actual USB controller, if possible reusing wires from original assembly, but combined accord the new controller. But if became complicate, erase all an fit news. A good Example, Xaitek X-36 throtte, no one original wire was used.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee321/Valisk_61/image-1.jpeg

When I convert a SFS years ago, using BU0836, I did this scheme of original wiring, and what I change to fit in BU0836 6x6 matrix.

http://s29.postimg.org/w33f86pdz/SFS_wire.jpg

I add one more wire for left throttle side switch (# 20), that became the # 21 button.

Recently I map a CH Fighterstick (gameport) HAT PCB to help a guy, the time consumed tracing these tiny lines with multimeter would have allowed convert 3 joystick If I have cut these PCB lines and solder wires and diodes direct to switch's poles. :)

It looks like

It also looks like you could use one of those small 5 way switches for the Target Designator / LOS Slew Control.

" The TDC switch is a 4-way switch which can be depressed as well ( TDC stands for Target Designation Control). A typical use of the switch is to press it, select something by tipping it to directions while keeping it pressed (move a cursor, for example) and then invoke a function to the selected point with releasing the switch. "

( http://www.f-15e.info/joomla/en/technology/cockpit/81-pilot-throttle )

Is the circuit board visible in the pic something you installed or what comes with the Throttle?

Circuit board came with throttle.

First I had plan to change bigger switch with this xbox joystick but it was to complicated, there is also limited space inside, original board has support inside throttle, there are also screws that hold it in place. I didn't want to use glue or to cut to much so I decided to leave it as it was. Those 5way switches that I have I'll use in the stick.

ok, done a bit more work on this & using gerry's diagram i've documented the matrix from the suncom throttle,

current:

my plans:

this (in theory) i think allows me to keep the existing diodes by joining 4 wires to create one matrix this looks like what gerryk has done also on http://www.gerryk.com/node/46 (11 lines)

still waiting for my arduinio to arrive so will join the 2 seperate marix' to create one 4x8 matrix & test & report back! :)

also noticed my pinkie switch on the left stick (D7 on my diagram) is actually an on-off with a spring that keeps it in the off position not an on-off-on like the rest... so my diagram is wrong in that respect.

my push pull switch seems a bit intermittent (b2+b3 onmy diagram) ... cleaned it up with alcohol wipes but its still not the best... anyone got suggestions for a suitable replacement?

 

my push pull switch seems a bit intermittent (b2+b3 onmy diagram) ... cleaned it up with alcohol wipes but its still not the best... anyone got suggestions for a suitable replacement?

No need to replace, I had same problem. There are a few parts i the that switch, PCB, 2 springs, piece with brushes, and button. You have to bend contacts (little brushes) and to add some solder on contacts on PCB. For me it worked perfectly. I can post photos if you need them.

No need to replace, I had same problem. There are a few parts i the that switch, PCB, 2 springs, piece with brushes, and button. You have to bend contacts (little brushes) and to add some solder on contacts on PCB. For me it worked perfectly. I can post photos if you need them.

photo's would be great! :)

i took the switch apart, the copper contact for one side seems to get stuck down...

Arrows show what I bent. Cooper brushes were down, just raise them a little. I also bent sprigs because they were scratching the plastics.

I added solder on larger contact plate, it was damaged i the middle.

Arrows show what I bent. Cooper brushes were down, just raise them a little. I also bent sprigs because they were scratching the plastics.

 

 

 

I added solder on larger contact plate, it was damaged i the middle.

 

fantastic! thanks!

D-7 (above picture) is in real F-15 two position switch, that - accord the link - work up and down.

Suncom wire this as only one button with back and forth movement. Don't save wires guys. :D

8 - CMD Dispenser Switch (Pinky Switch): This is a 2-way switch. When tipped up it engages CMD manual 2 program (semiautomatic countermeasure dispensing), and when tipped down it engages CMD manual 1 program (dropping chaff).

EDIT - The movement depend on F-15 version:

In the meantime, I am modding now a Raptor for a friend.

This one was not in great shape, but PCB is good, switches seems to be OK. There was rust and old grease so I put everything in bucket of water and dish soap.

Now it is awesome again. Water and soap do wonders.

Where can I find screws that are on this grip, they doesn't seem to be metric. What is American "designation"?

Where can I find screws that are on this grip, they doesn't seem to be metric. What is American "designation"?

The US use Imperial, not metric.

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/screwsize.htm

you could maybe re-drill / re-tap the threads to metric if you cant find any imperial replacements?

update while i'm waiting for my Arduinio's

connected wiring on throttle from right stick to left stick, & all apears to be functioning the way i would expect in regards to the operation of the existing matrix :) so should be straight forward to hook up to mmjoy :)

quick question about the pots,

i understand i have to wire up a +3.3v what pins do i connect this to on the pots?

update while i'm waiting for my Arduinio's

 

connected wiring on throttle from right stick to left stick, & all apears to be functioning the way i would expect in regards to the operation of the existing matrix :) so should be straight forward to hook up to mmjoy :)

 

 

quick question about the pots,

 

i understand i have to wire up a +3.3v what pins do i connect this to on the pots?

I don't know about your controller, on my board I had to connect 3 pins. You'll see some numbers on the pots.

You have to connect 1,2 and 3. Ground and +5v are probably 1 and 3, just take multimeter and if there is always same readout of resistance (between for example 1 and 3) when you move slider, than wire ground and +5V to those pins. The third one you can find also with multimeter, connect (probably 1 or 3 and 2) and if you measure different resistance when you move slider that that's it. That is output.

Did you fix the switch?

Suncom joystick pot. The one in throttle is more lengthy.

http://theseger.com/projects/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/pot_conn.jpg

The middle pin is for Signal.

The ones in extremity is if for +5V (or USB controller voltage) and GND.

Inverting polarity between these pins, invert axis response.

excellent, thanks guys!

yeah i managed to get the switch fixed, looks like mine was in better shape than yours debolestis, didnt need to solder teh tracks, just needed bending out..

bit OT, my f16 FLCS has arrived, & i understand that mmjoy supports shift registers... anyone got any idea how they connect up to an arduinio micro pro?

also didnt like the rubber boot, so removed it.. but now the joystick seems to have varying spring tension... anone replaced the rubber with something less stiff?

Can you post a few images of FLCS insides? Ihave X fighter and I changed the spring. Now is much lighter.

bit OT, my f16 FLCS has arrived, & i understand that mmjoy supports shift registers... anyone got any idea how they connect up to an arduinio micro pro?

Are some Arduino code F16 FLCS here, maybe help.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1790-there-any-better-joystick-ms-sidewinder-force-feedback-2/page-3

https://github.com/gerryk/USBJoystick

Can you post a few images of FLCS insides? Ihave X fighter and I changed the spring. Now is much lighter.

some pics & a video

Are some Arduino code F16 FLCS here, maybe help.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1790-there-any-better-joystick-ms-sidewinder-force-feedback-2/page-3

https://github.com/gerryk/USBJoystick

was kinda hoping i wouldn't need to go down that route :(

thanks for the links though

http://www.acme-labz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/tmf16_4.jpg

Interesting, despite made in plastic the mechanism look much tight than in F22 FLCS PRO that are done in metal and have a lot of play (I have one, shelved).

Lesson is: If not in ball bearings and steel, "metal" in joysticks worth little... :D

Interesting, despite made in plastic the mechanism look much tight than in F22 FLCS PRO that are done in metal and have a lot of play (I have one, shelved).

 

Lesson is: If not in ball bearings and steel, "metal" in joysticks worth little... :D

intresting, i was actually looking for an f22 pro as i assumed it would be "better" feel of teh f16 is good though, apart from the fact that you can definatley feel differences in spring tension when moving the stick diagonally as opposed to x axis or y axis, i assume this is because there is no damping from the rubber boot that i have removed... think i'll try a can cooler on it (like the cougar mods)

This pinkie lever (G-940 style) on Suncon F-15 work with axis - HALL sensor and magnet (used as proportional brake).

http://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/64234-mjoy-mjoy8-mjoy16-mmjoy/page-62#entry4382919

http://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/64234-mjoy-mjoy8-mjoy16-mmjoy/page-61#entry4372120

Hey guys...

In case anyone is looking there are a number of Suncom F-15E Sticks and F-15 Stick / SFS throttle combos on eBay for reasonable prices...

Here is link to what I found. (I have nothing for sale here just passing info along.)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XSuncom+F-15E.TRS0&_nkw=Suncom+F-15E&_sacat=0

I've been busy lately, I worked only a little. I now have new springs for talon and raptor.

New spring is on the left, on the right is original. The new one is 2,5 mm tick and has few more turns now there is 7, but 6 would be perfect. I now nothing about spring in theory or practice, so I had to guesstimate. Difference in thickness is only 0,5 mm but it makes a huge difference, I cannot say for sure but it seems to me that now it takes maybe half of force to move stick around.

I also soldered two new Leo Bodnar's PCBs.

And I started with this PCB for raptor.

Also found this PAGE, There is polished Suncom stick. What would be best approach to do that, buffing, sandpaper or some liquid, I have experience with metal, but I've never worked with plastics.

I remember this X-Plane Suncom mod, a intriguing thing is the guy never show or explain how he fit the HALL sensor in Suncom gimbal (I ask).

For what he say here, the grip was painted (powder coated):

"Note the handle is powder coated and the nice chrome metal ring around the base of the handle."