Ka-50 Unguided Rockets Firing Possible Bug! - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 12-02-2019, 06:26 AM   #11
26-J39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weta43 View Post
..if you actually disable all the AP channels does it happen ?

Just tried a rocket attack from a stable hover with no AP channels on at all, single pairs & large salvo's, there is no recoil at all. I believe this is the correct behavior.


Firing the cannon is a completely different story, as we all know.


So to answer the OP it sounds like an intermittent bug.

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Old 12-02-2019, 10:27 AM   #12
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All the small calibre MLRS systems that are not stabilised against the ground with hydraulic jacks (& several of the smaller ones that are), & are firing their missiles from "a cylinder with an opening in the front & back", are visibly rocked back by the launch of the missiles.
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Old 12-02-2019, 12:17 PM   #13
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Guys this was definitely discussed like 8 or 9 Years ago. I just cant really remember, and do not nail it to hard up to the Recoil point. The longer i think about it i was wrong in my first post and it had something to do to help recover the KA-50 out of the attack dive ~ -15 to -30 deg.

What i can for sure remember that this behavior is not a bug and its been like that as old as the KA-50 in DCS is.

Keep in mind that this single seat Attack Helicopter is more or less a Prototype and some Automatics where integrated to help to reduce the Workload for the pilot.

I have no idea this feature made it into the KA-52.

The fact that this recover feature does not appear in a second Salvo could be a bug.
But it aswell could be that it has some reset time because i have like the feeling that this was also discussed.

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Old 12-02-2019, 12:46 PM   #14
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I didn't watch the track, sorry for that. But question I have is that what is the delay between your salvos?

As when you fire first rocket salvo, your helicopter can pitch up, but then it starts recovering and all the energy that was used to pitch up, is now returning back to pitch down. And if you fire second salvo in the time period the energy is still pitching down (even slightly), the second salvo doesn't pitch you up because it can't counter the energy that there is pitching you down.

As well first salvo can be very surprising to a pilot, not prepared for it by pitching already down slightly, while the second is easier as pilot is prepared and does it automatically.

AFAIK the Apache doesn't have any kind automatic stabilization for the rocket firing. So nothing like a A-10 GAU-8 stabilization to keep it steady. As those rockets just do not cause much kickpack, but enough to make helicopter that is like all that weight top of the pin to get notched to one direction.

That is as well why it is better to fire from the move, as you have put all the energy of the helicopter weight in the motion, and any weapon fired at that moment doesn't need to just throw the helicopter out of the balance, but to counter all the energy that is in place in movement.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:16 PM   #15
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Hi all,

autopilot should make a pitch down in advance to compensate for the recoil.
We will take a look to see if anything is not working.

Thanks
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Old 12-02-2019, 05:55 PM   #16
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https://youtu.be/N4JhkjtCnVQ?t=63

As seen above no recoil is seen on the hind what so EVER!

Unguided rockets should have no recoil what so ever. Correct me if I'm wrong,ask an attack helicopter pilot who have fired unguided rockets...

Unguided rockets are very similar to recoil-less weapons, meaning the thrust after ignition is all dissipated behind the rocket to the open air! Where is the strong recoil going to come from?


Quote:
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Hi all,

autopilot should make a pitch down in advance to compensate for the recoil.
We will take a look to see if anything is not working.

Thanks
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Old 12-02-2019, 06:51 PM   #17
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Indeed it really pitched down. Sorry for my mistake.
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:11 PM   #18
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"Where is the strong recoil going to come from?"

Seen videos of Cesna's being blown over by the jet wash of airliners turning a hundred metres in front of them ?
when a salvo is launched, there's a (continuous set of) rocket sitting a metre in front of the rocket pod (only some of the tubes of which are empty - the rest are just a wall) with its rocket exhaust blowing on the aircraft.
The turbulence / backwash from the rockets is severe enough to risk flameout on the engines, and is in part why the real Ka-50 (& Mi-25) is prohibited from firing rocket salvos at less than 100 km/h
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:15 PM   #19
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^^ also - see the video I posted - MLRS without jacks are knocked about by the launch of what you're suggesting are recoil-less weapons. MLRS with jacks have jacks to keep them stable while launching.

Edit : See 1:16 in this
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Last edited by Weta43; 12-02-2019 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:14 PM   #20
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Weta43, good point about the land based rocket systems. I guess the rocket thrust is still pushing off the inner walls of the cylinder/tube also just as the rocket leaves the tube directly thrusting of the face of the launching pod.


Edit: Ah, apologies I missed that you mentioned pretty much the same above.


One consideration though is the size, weight & stability of the launching platform relative to the size & power of the rocket. Ground based systems have very large rockets compared to the launching platform where as attack helicopters are launching quite small rockets compared to the size and stability of a helicopter.

Last edited by 26-J39; 12-03-2019 at 11:22 PM.
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