Jump to content

Finding combat next to impossible!


imacken

Recommended Posts

So, I went through the training missions and manuals a few times, and I was happy that I had grasped the basics of air to air combat in the F-5. How wrong I was!

After trying Instant Action air-to-air and the missions in the Aggressors Campaign, I have found that I am completely unable to shoot anything down in the F-5.

I feel that learning the weapons systems and how the radar works in the training missions is all very well, as the enemy are fairly well behaved in these. In the other missions I mentioned, the AI aircraft seem to be able to do feats that I can't get anywhere near matching even though I am in the same aircraft.

I have real difficulty in making turns, keeping up speed etc. I thought this aircraft was supposed to be good in turns. Well, if I make a 90 degree bank and try to pull on the stick, I tend to get aircraft shake and hardly any turning movement. Even when I have good speed. Sometimes I can hardly make any yaw movement at all either with slight stick pulling back or full defection. Sometimes, if I try to change direction from a full left turn to a full right, I can hardly get the aircraft to move.

I have also found the radar to be useless in fast moving combat. It usually doesn't pick up the enemy, and things are happening so quickly that making adjustments, acquiring the target, etc. is next to impossible to do!

Trying to get a lock on in either gun mode, I am also finding difficult.

I know this is about practice and technique, but I am struggling to understand why I have so much difficulty in making the aircraft move during these fights.

Also, if I level off to gain a bit of speed for just a few seconds, I am blown out of the skies by a enemy missile. They AI seems to manage to kill very easily and very quickly. The RWR also doesn't show the enemy most of the time, so there is no warning of imminenet demise!

Any little nuggets of wisdom would be appreciated.

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Turning: You need to find the corner speed and g load to sustain a turn. I found it at about 400knots and 6g for a good brake turn and 4g for sustain. Also you play with the flaps. Fixed position is the best for manuevering.

Note that your engines do not spool up fast si dont smath the throtle especially from military to afterburners dont allow the speed to drop to much. Stop hard movements and retract the flaps for better acceleration.

AI: Ai does not make mistakes nor the same physics apply to them. Ai skill at good will give you a better chance.

Rwr: Right know if you hit the search mode you see search radars only and you hear a sort tone.Acquisition radars make a louder tone but to see them on the screen you need to deselect search mode. I have them bound so i can toggle fast but i always pay attention to the sound info.

 

That is all i can share. All of this apply to most aircraft but jets like this that need all the attention from the pilot are the most fun and rewarding at the end.

 

Sent from my iQE100 using Tapatalk

"These are not the bugs you are looking for..":pilotfly:

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

My YouTube channel

 

SPECS

-AMD FX8370 8 Core Processor 4.2 ghz

-GIGABYTE 970A-UD3P

-GTX 1050 TI Windforce 4g

-16 GB RAM

-Saitek X 52

-FaceNOIRtrack - 3 point clip Red Led

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am no Top Gun in F-5E, but here is my approach.

If AG ordinance is expended, and ext. tanks are empty. Jettison. DO NOT JETTISON SIDEWINDERS! DO NOT FIGHT WITH AG ORDINANCE ON PYLONS!

Set Sight rotary to Mis

Wingtip pylons turned on.

Wing and ventral pylons to off.

Gun/Mis safety cover UP, safety switch to Gun/Mis/Cam

All exterior lights to off.

Like F-16 Dogfight mode, in F-5E gun and AIM9 are both active at same time, regardless of Sight Rotary. With separate bindings for gun and missile fire. DCS F-5E has two dogfight modes, 5 and 10 nm. Head on merge is at 10, then quickly switch to 5 for fight.

Use radar for finding the enemy, and perhaps get initial AIM-9P5 seeker que. Once WVR (at 10 nm) radar STBY, let the seeker lock itself. Use uncage. Once the AIM9 tone is loud and high pitch you may fire. I find AIM-9P5 to have similar performance as AIM-9M in DCS. P is an earlier missile. In Falcon4 it is a rear aspect only, but in DCS it has decent all aspect performance. However it is vulnerable to AI countermeasures. I find guns to be usefull in DCS F-5E. Provided that Sight Rotary is AA-1 for fighters, and AA-2 is for larger slower pondering targets.

 

DCS F-5E has lower power motors then RW, and bleeds energy quickly in a turn. So fight like Chenault Flying Tiger P-40s fought against superior AM6 Zero in China. One pass , haul ass. So merge, fire AIM-9. If target is superior , A Fulcrum, Flanker, F-15C, F-16, separate from fight. Full burners nose down dive like hell. Get lost in clutter or terrain mask into a valley or canyon. If target in inferior , split S or rolling scizzors, get into slight lag pursuit, and kill. Then run away like Knight That Say Nee. 'runaway', 'runaway'.

So far I have only fought against AI in DCS: F-5E, so coming out of the sun at him does not work.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hopefully someone with more multiplayer experience than me will come in and back me up here...the issues with DCS AI have been addressed plenty on this forum. IMO the F5 really doesn’t shine air to air until you fight other humans.

 

That said, the F5 is a day VFR fighter at heart. It is possible to craft carefully scripted scenarios with the ME that require the use of the radar, however, these have basically no resemblance to an actual F5 engagement. Without IFF or very specific GCI/AEW if you can’t visually identify the bogey you can’t shoot. The F5 doesnt have IFF and turning on your radar is a big flashing “here I am” for anything with an RWR.

 

Join a good server, acquire visually (with POSITIVE assurance of aircraft type), and get into a fight. For me this is where the F5 is at its best; it seems like too many people want to get hung up on tertiary systems like the radar when the airframe itself and a good visual scan is all you need to be successful in a furball.

Multiplayer as Variable

 

Asus Z97-A - I7 4790K - 32 GB HyperX - EVGA GTX 1080 Ti - Corsair 750i PSU

 

TM Warthog HOTAS - TM Cougar MFDs - CH Pedals - TrackIR 5 - Samsung RU8000 55”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Dave, I haven’t read the book and I certainly don’t have a lot of knowledge on the F20 (other than that I sure would appreciate the extra 50% thrust or better that big GE 404 supposedly put out), but I just have always had the best luck in the F5 keeping my head on a swivel and out of the cockpit- at least in my experience by the time the radar can acquire a fighter sized target, if it is VMC they will be visible to the eye. I’m sure there are a few people that can play the radar like a piano and use it very effectively, but if I try I just turn into a victim for a MIG21 driver whilst I try to look at the little screen...

 

Cheers

Multiplayer as Variable

 

Asus Z97-A - I7 4790K - 32 GB HyperX - EVGA GTX 1080 Ti - Corsair 750i PSU

 

TM Warthog HOTAS - TM Cougar MFDs - CH Pedals - TrackIR 5 - Samsung RU8000 55”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently talked to a former Tiger pilot in the Swiss Air Force. He mentioned that the Tiger has little chance against a modern fighter like the F/A-18. After a 360 turn he usually was out of energy, making him an easy target for a Hornet. The few times he got kills against a Hornet was when novice pilots where flying or when the opposing pilot lost situational awareness in a fight.

 

He also mentioned that the radar was basically useless against targets further away than 15 miles.

 

Regarding the flaps: he mentioned that they used 0 flaps for a better climb, but you had to remember to go back to auto flaps before a fight. Implying that the used auto flaps for dogfights.

 

I will have him over to test my DCS setup with an Oculus im March. I will post about how realistic the simulator is after that.

 

Personally I think the AI is overpowered. Especially when flying against AI F5's. Multiplayer against other humans is much more fun. The loose situational awareness and act erratic.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your advice guys. I’m going to give it another go to see if I can improve!

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I think the AI is overpowered.

 

But only on the highest skill level. Average, good and high skill is easy to outmaneuver.

  • Like 1

7700k@5.0, 2080Ti OC, 960Pro M2, 32GB 3600 RAM, Virpil T-50CM stick, Virpil T-50 throttle, Trustmaster TPR rudder, HP Reverb consumer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But only on the highest skill level. Average, good and high skill is easy to outmaneuver.

I wish I could agree about high!

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if you're used to ww2 props like the spitfire, the turning on jets will feel agonizingly anemic but you need to be patient with it -- set your turn and wait to rate around while resisting the urge to haul back harder.

there are times all that instantaneous turn capability should be used, but abusing it too much is the easiest way to land yourself in jail.

 

The RWR also doesn't show the enemy most of the time

of course not, that's what your eyes are for

 

honestly sounds like you're relying too much on the airplane and not enough on yourself as a pilot. systems are there to help you, not to do things for you. you occupy yourself too much with the radar when you should just be eyeing the enemy and thinking about your approach geometry, and you think too much about the rwr when you should just be looking behind yourself. you defer too much to what the airframe is capable of when you should be deciding what to limit your maneuvers to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if you're used to ww2 props like the spitfire, the turning on jets will feel agonizingly anemic but you need to be patient with it -- set your turn and wait to rate around while resisting the urge to haul back harder.

there are times all that instantaneous turn capability should be used, but abusing it too much is the easiest way to land yourself in jail.

 

 

of course not, that's what your eyes are for

 

honestly sounds like you're relying too much on the airplane and not enough on yourself as a pilot. systems are there to help you, not to do things for you. you occupy yourself too much with the radar when you should just be eyeing the enemy and thinking about your approach geometry, and you think too much about the rwr when you should just be looking behind yourself. you defer too much to what the airframe is capable of when you should be deciding what to limit your maneuvers to.

Thanks for that. However, I’m not trying to get the aircraft to do everything for me, simply trying to get a better understanding of the facilities the aircraft has on board, e.g. RWR. Seems odd to me that you say that it doesn’t work, and don’t bother with it anyway.

You clearly have better eyesight than me, as I can’t see enemy planes at 40nm. I have to use the radar, I’m afraid.

Just trying to gain some advice on combat in the F-5, that’s all! There have been very useful tips here.

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that. However, I’m not trying to get the aircraft to do everything for me, simply trying to get a better understanding of the facilities the aircraft has on board, e.g. RWR. Seems odd to me that you say that it doesn’t work, and don’t bother with it anyway.

You clearly have better eyesight than me, as I can’t see enemy planes at 40nm. I have to use the radar, I’m afraid.

Just trying to gain some advice on combat in the F-5, that’s all! There have been very useful tips here.

The RWR works fine, but be aware that it only shows incoming radar emissions that are either in search mode or in target mode, but not both. By default it only shows radars in target mode, so you have to switch to search mode on the RWR for it to show search radars.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You clearly have better eyesight than me, as I can’t see enemy planes at 40nm. I have to use the radar, I’m afraid.

nobody is expecting to you to sight a target a 40nm. you have no business finding 20/30/40nm targets in an f-5 anyways because in that distance between you and him are any number of things that will upset your approach. knowing somethings out beyond 10nm is only good for situational awareness so that you know how long you can stick around for etc.

 

use cover and look for targets at ~5nm. there are things you can do to increase your likelihood of seeing your target.

 

Seems odd to me that you say that it doesn’t work, and don’t bother with it anyway.

rwr wont tell you about ir missiles

rwr wont tell you about all the other guys who have eyeballed you and are sneaking up on you with radar off

in those cases yes, rwr "doesn't work", and none of that should be considered "odd" in any sense. nothing's odd about people abusing techniques expressly to avoid your rwr, and there should be nothing odd about relying on your eyes and preventive measures in flying to counter that.

like air combat's been around long before the radar was a thing, do you find it odd that props don't have rwr? i dont think so.

---

 

lot of times success boils down to having the right expectations. it just sounds to me like you are expecting the wrong things.


Edited by probad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The RWR works fine, but be aware that it only shows incoming radar emissions that are either in search mode or in target mode, but not both. By default it only shows radars in target mode, so you have to switch to search mode on the RWR for it to show search radars.

Now that is useful. Thanks for that. Didn’t realise that!

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

Link to comment
Share on other sites

like air combat's been around long before the radar was a thing, do you find it odd that props don't have rwr? i dont think so.

 

lot of times success boils down to having the right expectations. it just sounds to me like you are expecting the wrong things.

And we used to use pigeons to deliver messages. Doesn’t mean that emails are not useful.

You have no idea what my expectations are. I’m really not sure what your agenda is, but you’re not really helping.

Thanks anyway.

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The F-20 as described in the book, is F-5F. The PMC pilots in the book are former US Navy F-8 and F-14 crews. There is also some interconnect with another novel called The Sixth Battle. Which should required reading for Naval Aviators.

 

Anyhow in Warriors, PMC F-20/F-5F is without radar. It is set in MidEast desert, where it is mostly clear. So they setup a EW system based on specially trained Bedouins with binoculars to visually detect ingressing opponent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Get your ass on. Multiplayer server, that’s better training than AI anyway. Find a wingman to work with you and you’ll learn loads. That’s what I’ve done with BoS in the cute little I-16 and when I got my F-5 and got back into DCS.

 

Can completely confirm that in a more natural setting like a server that the RWR won’t help much unless the enemy is a noob and is using radar. Get in the air, look at the map to figure out a good hunting ground, use the good old MkI to spot your targets.

 

Odds are you’ll never see who killed you, as is true in real air engagements.

"Chops"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Always make lead turns. AI will never reverse on you. That's a sure way of beating AI everytime, no matter the skill level.

Thanks for that.

I am trying the first combat mission in the Aggressor's Campaign. There, the opponent and I are on a head to head, then the enemy passes, gets behind and just does either crazy vertical loops, or horizontal turns that I cannot get match. We're both in a F-5 as well!

I've tried going high and gaining some energy for dropping on top, but I still cannot get a shot away.

What would a general recommended technique be to get into a lead turn situation in those circumstances?

Any help appreciated.

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like you are starting the merge turn too late and bleeding too much energy trying to catch up. You need to think ahead and don't fly through the HUD.

AI is kind of superpowered in some regard. Ie, they can go to the edge of envelope and stay there like a fly on a dogsh*t.

But just find the timing and do your lead turns, and you will get them.

Flying the F-5 is about timing and trying to preserve energy.

Make sure you dont pull too many G's and be smooth on the stick (so to speak). :D

Last, forget about missiles in close-in D/F. stick to the gun. most of the time your turnradius will be too small to get a good missile shot.

Dunno if that is any help.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like you are starting the merge turn too late and bleeding too much energy trying to catch up. You need to think ahead and don't fly through the HUD.

AI is kind of superpowered in some regard. Ie, they can go to the edge of envelope and stay there like a fly on a dogsh*t.

But just find the timing and do your lead turns, and you will get them.

Flying the F-5 is about timing and trying to preserve energy.

Make sure you dont pull too many G's and be smooth on the stick (so to speak). :D

Last, forget about missiles in close-in D/F. stick to the gun. most of the time your turnradius will be too small to get a good missile shot.

Dunno if that is any help.

 

Nice tips! :thumbup::thumbup:

_________________________________

Aorus Z390 Extreme MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.0 GHz | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra | 32 GB G Skill Trident Z 3600 MHz CL14 DDR4 Ram | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler | Corsair TX 850M PS | Samsung 970 Evo Plus M.2 NVMe SSD 1TB |TMWH Hotas with VPC WarBRD Base| Corsair Gamer 570x Crystal Case | HP Reverb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK guys, I really am on the verge of giving up with this. I obviously am doing something fundamentally wrong with the F-5 in a dogfight.

Can one of you really helpful people do a video or just a track maybe of the Instant Action air-to-air mission in Nevada against the F-14 to show me the way?

GUNS ONLY! It's easy enough to hit it with a missile.

What happens with me is that the F-14 climbs, I wait for it to drop, try to get behind it, fail, then we have an endless cat and mouse series of manoeuvres and I NEVER get a shot off at it. If I stop moving around for 2 or 3 seconds, I am immediately downed by a missile!

Aarrgghh!

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK guys, I really am on the verge of giving up with this. I obviously am doing something fundamentally wrong with the F-5 in a dogfight.

Can one of you really helpful people do a video or just a track maybe of the Instant Action air-to-air mission in Nevada against the F-14 to show me the way?

GUNS ONLY! It's easy enough to hit it with a missile.

What happens with me is that the F-14 climbs, I wait for it to drop, try to get behind it, fail, then we have an endless cat and mouse series of manoeuvres and I NEVER get a shot off at it. If I stop moving around for 2 or 3 seconds, I am immediately downed by a missile!

Aarrgghh!

I have only managed one kill against the Tomcat in countless tries but it is possible.

 

 

I made several mistakes in this engagement that the AI did not capitalize on, and it made a couple errors too that I was not in position to capitalize on either until they made a badly timed decision to extend at the very end.

 

Keep your energy up, that means smooth turns, only use bat turns to force an overshoot. Use the vertical to reduce turn radius and/or maintain/regain energy. If you are always in the buffet you are pulling too hard - the F-5E seems to be a finesse fighter

 

You start that evolution at a severe energy disadvantage against a superior opponent (as appears to be the case for most of the instant action air starts) - you will most likely be jousting, not getting and staying in position for a tracking shot, so be ready for snap shots close in as you cross paths. One circle vs two circle will help keep you in close and reduce their opportunity to get into the WEZ.

 

It is frustrating but recognize it is an AI that gets to use all the energy, all the time, in a superior platform, starting from a better position/energy state - it is a tough place to start.

 

Also, check out JambockSydy's youtube videos for the Maple Flag BFM campaign, there's some good examples in there of well timed maneuvering.

 

'Gimp


Edited by AcroGimp

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

A-4E | F-5E | F-14B | F/A-18C | AV-8B NA | UH-1H | FC3 | Yak-52 | KA-50 | Mi-8 | SA-342



i7 8700K | GTX 1070 Ti | 32GB 3000 DDR4

FAA Comm'l/Instrument, FAST Formation Wingman, Yak-52 Owner/Pilot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...