How do I get started building a cockpit?

I have been researching so many cool cockpit designs on the A10C. It is daunting to see how good many of them are. I do know the starting point where I want to begin: the front console. Can anyone point me in a direction where I can get the panels made? I can do the electronics and switches, just need the face plates and boxes. I will post pics throughout the months if this thing really comes together. Thanks very much for any and all help!

Hi Trounce,

did you check the Home Cockpit section? I'm not sure, if someone offers finished Panels for sale at the moment.

Here is a link if you consider to build some by yourself:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84791&highlight=panel+pdf

This thread is another good place to start. Dimebug builds a cockpit and shares his drawings for the structure :-

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=76032&highlight=dimebug

Good luck !

I am only at the stage of building a joystick so far...

Thanks very much for the panels! I have a friend with a 3D printer I am going to try and prototype one of the printouts on it. I'll post a picture when complete in a few days or so.

Dimebug has some really interesting ideas going on there!.

You can always start as I did, Get some lexan or plexiglass, Print out the panels you wish to have:thumbup:.

tape pictures to rear of lexan and mark where to drill.

Make the holes for the switches and mount them then wire it all to arduino or bodnar type boards then for arduino write your interface or for Bodnar type boards either use helios or the ingame setup menu:smartass:.

later when you have ironed out all the mistakes go on to a full feature cockpit:joystick:.

I havn't got that far as every time I get close ED changes something:doh:.

I've always wanted to create a home cockpit. I flew the ball sims when I was in the Navy and wanted to try to recreate that as closely as possible. HOWEVER, after I received my Oculus Rift DK2, I reflected on the fact that I'm glad I didn't put all the time and money into a cockpit. Although the Oculus Rift isn't where it needs to be in terms of resolution, they're quickly getting there. My experience with the dev kit was breathtaking. The scale of the aircraft and cockpit are immersive and put you INSIDE the pit. The depth and spacial awareness are so good that you can determine your altitude without looking at the altimeter. It really is that good. It can't be fully conveyed with words.

So, I don't want to discourage your pit project, but I did want to relay my personal relief that I didn't start my project before seeing VR.

I have been researching so many cool cockpit designs on the A10C. It is daunting to see how good many of them are. I do know the starting point where I want to begin: the front console. Can anyone point me in a direction where I can get the panels made? I can do the electronics and switches, just need the face plates and boxes. I will post pics throughout the months if this thing really comes together. Thanks very much for any and all help!

Welcome to the pit building community! Definitely start by looking at Dimebug's plans. They are a very good starting point. As for panels there is no one that I know of making and selling them at the moment. For the front console (MIP) there are only a few panels (LDGP, AHCP, CMSC, NMSP, Fuel Quantity and HARS) so you can begin with the structure and look at the panels afterwards if you cannot find a source for them.

If you need help with anything then just ask here. There is an amazingly large wealth of information and people will be happy to help.

Boltz

I've always wanted to create a home cockpit. I flew the ball sims when I was in the Navy and wanted to try to recreate that as closely as possible. HOWEVER, after I received my Oculus Rift DK2, I reflected on the fact that I'm glad I didn't put all the time and money into a cockpit. Although the Oculus Rift isn't where it needs to be in terms of resolution, they're quickly getting there. My experience with the dev kit was breathtaking. The scale of the aircraft and cockpit are immersive and put you INSIDE the pit. The depth and spacial awareness are so good that you can determine your altitude without looking at the altimeter. It really is that good. It can't be fully conveyed with words.

 

So, I don't want to discourage your pit project, but I did want to relay my personal relief that I didn't start my project before seeing VR.

I want the physical deal. I want to hear and feel the switches click, smell the electronics... and plus I don't think my wife will say yes once we have a "bigger" family. :thumbup:

and plus I don't think my wife will say yes once we have a "bigger" family.

Wife

Definitions

noun, plural wives

1. (Law) a man's partner in marriage; a married woman.

2. an archaic or dialect word for woman

3. The archetypal nemesis of the lowly pit builder.

I want the physical deal. I want to hear and feel the switches click, smell the electronics... and plus I don't think my wife will say yes once we have a "bigger" family. :thumbup:

Trounce, If you are sure you want to go down that line, we can probably help each other here.

I did all the lets make it better stuff, 3 X 27 inch monitors, softth, superb looking, got a standard made Throttle/Hotas stand, didn't like it so cut and weld etc, now I'm well happy and it will fit in a full cockpit build.

The 6 dof in the a10 was really good but I thought, na, I want to make it physical, so I started my first switch box, just to see if I was any good at the electrical side of it.

Hans (HMA) helped me alot. So I bought all the switches/box/bbi32 and tried it, learned to solder (was a problem as I used to weld as a sat diver, totally different from soldering, trust me).

I'm like wow it worked. Now I am going to build a full a10c cockpit, from the ground up. I know they are trying to retire it, but they had to bring it back into service for current missions. It's the best CAS aircraft ever imho so I'm happy to have it in my spare bedroom for many years to come.

If you want to go for a build, I will use this post for my trials and tribulations, post up how to's and you can post up your successes and failures for people in the same boat who want to start but don't know where. If you want to deal with it email and skype etc, ,let me know, not a problem, I'm gonna post my progress anyway.

Best regards

weeb

Good luck Weeb! I see you are in Scotland me too. If I knew about this a couple of months ago I would have offered you all of my old centre console and MIP. Unfortunately, I have taken it apart now and some of it has gone into other things.

If I can help you with anything just let me know.

Boltz

You've been bitten by the Pit Building Bug! Once you go for real switches nothing can compare (at least until VR can provide tactile feedback). :megalol:

I'm in the middle of my pit build and have found it an exhilarating experience. Lots of issues to work out but lots of fun doing so. I think half the fun of having a home built pit is the building experience.

Lots of good folk on the forums to help answer questions. I've used the plans from Y2KIAH found in this thread.

It wasn't hard to get them blown up to actual size and cut out by hand (no CNC cutter for me - I did it old school with a jig saw). Once covered it looks great.

It's a big project and well worth it. I read that someone was working on a mod that would allow VR users to see their cockpits too. That would be the best, VR for the sim world and a working cockpit for the real switches. :thumbup:

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask alot of questions.

Good luck Weeb! I see you are in Scotland me too. If I knew about this a couple of months ago I would have offered you all of my old centre console and MIP. Unfortunately, I have taken it apart now and some of it has gone into other things.

 

If I can help you with anything just let me know.

 

Boltz

Thank you Boltz, really appreciate the offer of help. I'll drop you a pm when I have more time and introduce myself m8.

You've been bitten by the Pit Building Bug! Once you go for real switches nothing can compare (at least until VR can provide tactile feedback). :megalol:

 

I'm in the middle of my pit build and have found it an exhilarating experience. Lots of issues to work out but lots of fun doing so. I think half the fun of having a home built pit is the building experience.

 

Lots of good folk on the forums to help answer questions. I've used the plans from Y2KIAH found in this thread.

 

It wasn't hard to get them blown up to actual size and cut out by hand (no CNC cutter for me - I did it old school with a jig saw). Once covered it looks great.

 

It's a big project and well worth it. I read that someone was working on a mod that would allow VR users to see their cockpits too. That would be the best, VR for the sim world and a working cockpit for the real switches. :thumbup:

 

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask alot of questions.

Totally true Sabre. At the moment I get as much fun out of researching and building things. The flying is "as and when something needs tested" but I just love the whole concept of DCS world. I had no interest in flight sims for years and it was my 84 year old father who put me on my current path. He played flight sims and I didn't know what the attraction was until I downloaded DCS free and started playing about with the Frogfoot.

My aces 2 is all hand cut and shaped, but I have been looking at hobby CNC machines. The Chinese make some for £400-£500 but I've no idea how reliable or functional they are. I did however find a book called "Build your own CNC Machine" for £700-£800 (That's for the machine not the book), which has caught my interest. But I have to draw a line somewhere, I can't do everything, so I have to prioritize and it's hand cutting the pit for now. :thumbup:

If you do decide to build a CNC machine, I suggest you look into http://momuscnc.com/

I'm building one now, and I've been impressed by the thought that went into its design. There is also a well populated builder's forum at http://www.cnczone.com/forums/momus-design-cnc-plans/

I am pretty cynical about those cheap Ebay CNC machines. In the world of machine tools you only get what you pay for.

My gut feeling is that there is a good chance you might end up with a £500 paperweight ( or doorstop, take your pick :) )

The Momus looks very interesting and if it comes with free tech support via other builders then that is a huge advantage.

Some of the Chinese machines aren't bad....they aren't great, but not bad. I started with a converted 47158 micro mill (Sieg X1) from harbor freight. With about $500 of electronics and a bit of work I had a fairly capable mill, which would even do steel (barely)...great for aluminum and acrylic though.

This one is similar:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4660&category=1387807683

Add stepper motors, driver board, power supply and some hardware and you've got a fairly capable hobby machine.

I'd tend to agree with you there...

If you really must buy Chinese then the Sieg brand aren't too bad.

I have an X2 mill, and although it needed rebuilding straight out of the box it has been OK so far, within it's limitations.

If you do decide to build a CNC machine, I suggest you look into http://momuscnc.com/

 

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What is the rough estimate of the cost of a final build?

What is the rough estimate of the cost of a final build?

MOMUS CNC... I was just at their web site and was reading the specs. I didn't find anything that speaks to the accuracy of the product except "high level of accuracy and precision." What the hell does that mean! Really! Its all relative then and what they think is accurate maybe I would not. Another statement they made "and provides adequate levels of accuracy and precision." Excuse me, but what is adequate? Why can't you give me number as in accurate to .001" or .01" or what.

There is a reason they do not say how accurate it is in the specs.

Please consider that in the end, the accuracy of the machine is probably THE first and most important question one can ask. If the machine cannot cut a perfect circle or go back to 0,0 within .001" then its not going to be much good. But I should qualify that. It won't be much good for what we want to do.

How many of us really need that kind of accuracy anyways? Well... if you don't have that kind of accuracy then forget about cutting PCB's. Also, engraving will look really awful in the smaller font sizes. The list could go on.

There are so many machine out there that say "high level of accuracy and precision." And if you are doing 3d wood carving with your machine then it will be great. There are no tolerances that you need to work to. You could even do it free hand and still have something nice. That doesn't work for us. We have to have accuracy for what we do.

Please think very hard about what you expect the machine to do for you and then find out if it can. BTW, there is a reason some of those cnc machines are $500.00. I get so angry with these vendors because all they do is turn you off CNC because you get a shit product and end up frustrated and give up. Its suppose to be fun and a great learning experience and it will let you do amazing things.

Be careful in your selection. Speak to a machine shop if you are unsure. Most machinists will tell you what you need for accuracy. My machine does .002" but I haven't tuned it up for a long time. It could do .0005" if I was careful. Its a Taig Mill.

I think I have about $1200US in it now. I bought the motors and electronics from CNC Router Parts for about $540. I think you could find less expensive alternatives on Ebay. I've bought no software as yet. I will at least initially use LinuxCNC which is free.

MOMUS CNC...

 

There are so many machine out there that say "high level of accuracy and precision." And if you are doing 3d wood carving with your machine then it will be great. There are no tolerances that you need to work to. You could even do it free hand and still have something nice. That doesn't work for us. We have to have accuracy for what we do.

 

.....

 

Be careful in your selection. Speak to a machine shop if you are unsure. Most machinists will tell you what you need for accuracy. My machine does .002" but I haven't tuned it up for a long time. It could do .0005" if I was careful. Its a Taig Mill.

This is all too true.

The Momus design allows room for builder choices. If the machine is built with 200 steps per revolution motors and 8X micro stepping is used then the tool step interval is 0.00125". But this alone doesn't tell you how well the machine will perform. There are other factors such as backlash and spindle run out.

Overall this design seems to be well thought out. There is a balance between the rigidity of the structure and the positioning accuracy of the tool. There are a number of DIY CNC designs that appear to offer 0.0001" accuracy or better, but sit on a framework that you just know will flex a quarter inch once a significant load is placed on the spindle. The Momus design avoids this.

Momus builders have posted videos on the CNCZone support forums of projects they have done using this machine. It apparently works very well with wood. It's also been used to mill aluminum with what appears to be very good results.

So, how well will this design meet the needs of hobby sim building? In truth, I don't yet know. It appears to be one of the better, if not the best, DIY CNC machines in its class. (And, yes, I know I used a bit of weasel-wording there.) I chose it as an entry into CNC based on the quality of the plans and on an expectation that the result would quite likely be useful in sim building. When I finish some other project work I will complete the machine, run some tests, and let you know if I've been disappointed.

Progress pictures on my Momus CNC are here:

http://mikesflightdeck.com/oldnews/oldnews_2012.html

and here:

http://mikesflightdeck.com/oldnews/oldnews_2013.html

Well I wish you the best of luck Mike. I certainly hope it provides you with the accuracy you will need. From what I have seen of your previous endeavors I have no doubt you should be able to overcome most problems you encounter.

Your choice of motor driver and power supply are spot on. The Gecko 540 is an absolutely fabulous piece of equipment. There really isn't anything better for this size of machine. I run one as well. And the 48V power supply is an excellent match for it. I assume the cables are heavily shielded? If you haven't installed the 540 and PSU yet, use a large case(for air flow) and a medium size fan. They both tend to get hot.

A small footprint PC case works well. This is mine.

Mike, please post your findings once you have it up and running. I would be interested to see how it performs.

And for all of you wanting to start into CNC, I highly recommend the following items as a bare minimum for being able to make the kind of parts we see here on the ED forums: This, of course, does not include the actual machine. That one you have to figure out for yourselves.

1. Gecko 540/48V PSU (drives the stepper motors)

2. Nema 23 280oz steppers (these are powerful enough to handle most anything in the size of machine we're all talking about).

3. Mach 3 CNC Machine Control Software. This is an easy to use, easy to learn, inexpensive, excellent in all respects, piece of software which you need to run the CNC Controller (Gecko 540) and consequently the machine itself. $175.

4. CamBam - Extremely easy to use. Extremely easy to learn. Excellent for the beginner. This is what you use to convert your drawing into G-code so the machine can cut it out. It also comes with a "built in" set of drawing and editing tools. I bet most people could get by with just using CamBam to make a drawing of a panel, convert it to G-code and then send it to the controller (Mach 3) to have your machine engrave and cut it out. I use AutoCAD which is at an entirely different level. But on the other hand, making panels is not rocket science so CamBam could probably meet all of your basic needs at the beginning. And BTW its only $149.

Finally, CNCZone (the forum) is your friend. Join and read.