How bad is the Warthog stick and throttle?

I've used the Warthog for years with no problems. All I do to it is replace the stiff spring with an aftermarket green spring. I don't mess with the cursor. It works fine for me. If i'm flying planes with an AB I use the Shapeways detent.

I'm sure someone will ask where they can get the lighter spring.

So, here you go.

https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/shop/warthog-green-springs/

I'm amused about all the comments about the warthog spring being too strong - they obviously are not interested in realism, or have never flown a real fighter! My warthog has the Sahaj blue spring (stiffest one made) and a 15 cm extension, and it's still LIGHTER than any real jet I have ever flown - or the Pawnee tow plane I fly every weekend!

As a reference, 5 to 7 lbs per G is considered the sweet spot for stick force in pitch (less in roll). Less and you will over-G the plane (and yourself!) way too easily; more and you are talking 2-handed stick pulling (read up on P-51 stick forces, for example; and my personal experience in F-4s supports that in a long fight...). I think my modded warthog is probably around 1.5-2 pounds per G at most; in real life it would be scary light and an over-G or GLOC would be a real concern!

So yeah, for airquake "game" flying, the warthog may feel stiff, but if you are trying to replicate what a real fighter feels like, learn to trim and enjoy the burn!

But to the original question - Warthog is great; get an extension and a spring and some Nyogel; do the cursor mod and the push-through AB detent, save up for Monstertech desk mounts, and you will be pretty close to the real thing. Especially with the TPR rudders. Absolutely worth it.

Vulture

if you fly helicopters then the spring force is not just wrong its actually physically painful to hold the stick in cruise for 40 minutes..

why my spring got removed..

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree, too bad we can't do it over a beer after some acro in an ASK-21. While I agree that the warthog gimbal is not a good design, that is mainly because I really want different stick forces in pitch and roll, along with different stick deflection in pitch and roll. I'm keeping an eye on the Virpil stick bases for just that reason, but so far have not given them a try.

And really, ACM with no stick forces? Even in the F-16 with a non-moving (OK, a little bit) stick you still get worn out yanking and banking! (and yes, I have flown the Viper IRL). I've read reports about P-51s that talk about 40-50 lbs stick force to maneuver - so two hands needed to fight! Just moving a floppy joystick around may be the best way to win online, but it really does not do justice to just how physical maneuvering a high performance airplane can be.

But then again I have no interest in simming as a competitive game - I'm more into realism. But it's all fun!

Cheers,

Vulture

 

But then again I have no interest in simming as a competitive game - I'm more into realism. But it's all fun!

Me to and the Warthog makes a good Job here for the Price.

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I guess we will just have to agree to disagree, too bad we can't do it over a beer after some acro in an ASK-21. While I agree that the warthog gimbal is not a good design, that is mainly because I really want different stick forces in pitch and roll, along with different stick deflection in pitch and roll. I'm keeping an eye on the Virpil stick bases for just that reason, but so far have not given them a try.

 

And really, ACM with no stick forces? Even in the F-16 with a non-moving (OK, a little bit) stick you still get worn out yanking and banking! (and yes, I have flown the Viper IRL). I've read reports about P-51s that talk about 40-50 lbs stick force to maneuver - so two hands needed to fight! Just moving a floppy joystick around may be the best way to win online, but it really does not do justice to just how physical maneuvering a high performance airplane can be.

 

But then again I have no interest in simming as a competitive game - I'm more into realism. But it's all fun!

 

Cheers,

 

Vulture

How much stick force does the Hornet have? It's much easier to be precise with a long stick compared to the Warthog with the same force. The Warthog is too stiff for the amount of throw it has. The green spring I use hardly makes it floppy. It does make it more precise.

For the record, I only fly realistic campaigns and never air quake. I also fly the real P-51. Simulations can't duplicate the real thing. We do it for fun. Fighting a short stiff stick is not fun. I'm not out to impress anybody but fly sims for myself.

I don’t really enjoy using the WarBRD much with heavy grips from TM. It feels bouncy like I’m pulling springs and let go. The feel with lighter grips are fine and the accuracy is good but otherwise meh. The CM2 base might be better with stiffer springs, but at this point might as well wait for a force feedback base.

The CM2 base might be better with stiffer springs, but at this point might as well wait for a force feedback base.

There is a high quality FF Base made in Switzerland. TM and VirPil compatible. Sadly no firmware working with DCS yet, but afaik it's planned to come.

https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/produkt/cls-e-joystick/?lang=de

Nice Pricetag

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At our house I have two warthog HOTAS (For many years of constant use) I have a Virpill throttle with VKB modern on another rig and a VKB gunfighter (w a komodo Collective on yet another rig). All have had lots of use and I have to say that the Warthog remains the best HOTAS all around. Solid reliable and full of options.

Los

After 9Years of use,i do this to my Warthog today and it is good as new now again

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8 years with my Warthog HOTAS. 0 issues. No mods. No stiction. ymmv....

Not trying to dissuade any Warthog owners, ... I know many, many guys love their Hog sticks, but I tried out the entire HOTAS twice and came away mostly enjoying the throttle but disliking the stick. When I first got the stick and unboxed it, I could not believe that it could not reach into the corners of an X-Y plot. This is because of the circular opening at the top of the gimbal. That means that an unmodded Warthog stick cannot apply, say, full right aileron and full forward pitch at the same time (to luff a plane, ... say, in combat). I was completely dumbfounded and remain so today.

Aurelius what you said is wrong : the part you show is decorative round plate - the real opening of top of gimbal is inside of that and is a square with round shape on the corners (of radius of stick shaft).

The movement limits of warthog is a square see it in pictures joined (limit right, limit down and limit down/right)

Yep,its Square.

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I got mine from the beginning and have SN.620

BtW. On your Picture it is Square also.

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Well 10 days in and I am loving my new Warthog stick and throttle. So much better than my Saitek X52 and lots of buttons to configure.

I do find the spring very heavy, but am going to try and get used to it.

I am thinking of getting a Wheel stand pro to mount it all on. Anybody else got one and can offer any thoughts. I'm looking at the pro deluxe version which has separate mounts for stick and throttle.

Going to have to get that deltasim slew upgrade mod though. The default is truly as bad as everyone says and I cant believe they haven't changed the design in all the years they have been making them.

Its looking like nearly a 3 month wait for the slew sensor. Can anybody please suggest some good curves to use with it in the meantime, so that its slightly less sensitive and a bit more usable?

Thanks in advance

Good thing about Warthog HOTAS, is the software that come with it - TARGET, and actually is for free.

This is just beyond me, why so many Warthog user completely ignoring it. You can make amazing things with it. If you fly competitive mp using TARGET scripts could be consider cheating :)

The bad is to spend so much cash on it, and not to learn how to use TARGET.

T.1600 can use TARGET too. :thumbup:

I also don't need Target. DCS include all settings you neet for the Warthog

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Good thing about Warthog HOTAS, is the software that come with it - TARGET, and actually is for free.

 

This is just beyond me, why so many Warthog user completely ignoring it. You can make amazing things with it. If you fly competitive mp using TARGET scripts could be consider cheating :)

 

The bad is to spend so much cash on it, and not to learn how to use TARGET.

 

T.1600 can use TARGET too. :thumbup:

Totally agree on that. Used the hog for a long time before trying out TARGET and don't ever wanna miss it.

I also don't need Target. DCS include all settings you neet for the Warthog

For the Hornet not realy. DCS provides a few Joystick special commands that make the switches on the WH TQS a 2 position switch, such as APU ON/OFF. With Target you can bind every position of the switches with commands of your choice and not only the "joystick special" commands. For example, i use the EAC switch for Master ARM ON in one position and OFF for the other position. Impossible with DCS' ingame keybinds. Pinky Switch has 3 commands with TARGET, with DCS only 2 are possible. DCS includes a lot of settings for the WH, but without TARGET you can't use the Warthogs full potential. Try it out and you'll be surprised. TARGET almost doubles the possible keybinds on the WH's throttle without using a toggle.

The only drawback with TARGET (well, in fact it's a windows issue) is, that it morphes your controls into one virtual controller and windows does only allow 8 axis per controller. WH Hotas plus Pedals are 10 and you'll have to exclude the paddles from your TARGET profile. But since you only binding key commands in TARGET while axis are still set in DCS, it doesen't make much of a difference...

all true about the tm wh distractions but it still 100% better thjan saitek product i ever owned including the x56

i tied the wheel stand and its light weight and mobile but it isnt the best option imo especiallyfor a center mounted stick

Totally agree on that. Used the hog for a long time before trying out TARGET and don't ever wanna miss it.

 

 

 

For the Hornet not realy. DCS provides a few Joystick special commands that make the switches on the WH TQS a 2 position switch, such as APU ON/OFF. With Target you can bind every position of the switches with commands of your choice and not only the "joystick special" commands. For example, i use the EAC switch for Master ARM ON in one position and OFF for the other position. Impossible with DCS' ingame keybinds. Pinky Switch has 3 commands with TARGET, with DCS only 2 are possible. DCS includes a lot of settings for the WH, but without TARGET you can't use the Warthogs full potential. Try it out and you'll be surprised. TARGET almost doubles the possible keybinds on the WH's throttle without using a toggle.

 

The only drawback with TARGET (well, in fact it's a windows issue) is, that it morphes your controls into one virtual controller and windows does only allow 8 axis per controller. WH Hotas plus Pedals are 10 and you'll have to exclude the paddles from your TARGET profile. But since you only binding key commands in TARGET while axis are still set in DCS, it doesen't make much of a difference...

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Buttons in flight sims are like money and ammunition. You can never have enough of it :D

Seriously, TARGET provides way more functions than just more buttons. For example, it defines the cuttoff/idle positions of the throttle as switches for a more realistic engine start/cutoff. This may be a peanut example, but i for myself like these little details and i don´t wanna have 2 way switches with only one position beeing able to be mapped. And there are a lot more of these little things with TARGET. You`re absolutely right, you don´t need TARGET for a great flight experience, but it´s also true that you´re missing a lot of the hogs potential without it. Not to talk about the script editor...

Nice setup btw! May i ask what keyboard you have on the left side?

Thanks,Its this one.

https://www.amazon.de/Logitech-K310-waschbare-Tastatur-USB/dp/B0091ESF4E

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