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radar usage


malcheus

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I seem to remember from earlier versions that the radar worked a lot better.

The last week, it has been working very poorly for me.

So I was wondering whether I'm doing something wrong?

 

To test this I made a simple mission with a few air targets flying away from me at different altitudes.

Here are a few screenshots to illustrate how poorly the radar is working:

oNGUF7O.png

2 targets, almost straight ahead, slightly higher than meradar pointing straight ahead at HRF, no contacts (even after letting it fully scan a few times).

 

a bit later one of the AI's misbehaved by turning towards me:

even at 8.6NM I don't see him on the radar

HlKoKaQ.png

 

Then I turned on the special mode and it instantly locks.

wZ99lD7.png

 

I also attached the track.

Curious to hear whether I am missing something, or whether this is a bug.

 

Thanks beforehand for thinking along!

 

edit: perhaps related to the other thread about contacts blinking? I have also seen that, but in this case I don't see any contacts at all....

AA_radar_test.trk


Edited by malcheus
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TL;DR:

 

Thanks for including your track, I'm not sure what's going on exactly perhaps it's related to the radar warm up and/or your distance/altitude (targets are at 10,000ft@10MN, while you are down at 2,500ft), but there does seem something wrong if you don't do a 360° orbit first.

 

Detail

 

I saw the same behaviour until I changed my procedure a little (I took control of your track on the runway).

 

At take off the radar is in warm up with the 'P' flashing.

 

Instead of turning left (towards the target aircraft) turn right and enter a right hand orbit at ~5,000 ft.

 

• Once the 'P' stops flashing, switch the radar to active.

• F10 map for target direction and distance.

• Set the appropriate radar scale and head in that direction.

 

I usually picked up the MiG-23 @ 8,700ft and 23-28 NM.

 

The crucial part is the 360 orbit (though I have seen contacts 'appear' after a hard turn).

 

Note: I added a airspawn as well and it showed the same behaviour i.e. required an orbit/hard turn before RWS would register any contacts.

 

Tested DCS 2.5.5.39384

 

@Decoy please check and forward bug report if required.

M2K RWS only works after 360 orbit, 2_5_5_39384.trk

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TL;DR:

 

Thanks for including your track, I'm not sure what's going on exactly perhaps it's related to the radar warm up and/or your distance/altitude (targets are at 10,000ft@10MN, while you are down at 2,500ft), but there does seem something wrong if you don't do a 360° orbit first.

 

Detail

 

I saw the same behaviour until I changed my procedure a little (I took control of your track on the runway).

 

At take off the radar is in warm up with the 'P' flashing.

 

Instead of turning left (towards the target aircraft) turn right and enter a right hand orbit at ~5,000 ft.

 

• Once the 'P' stops flashing, switch the radar to active.

• F10 map for target direction and distance.

• Set the appropriate radar scale and head in that direction.

 

I usually picked up the MiG-23 @ 8,700ft and 23-28 NM.

 

The crucial part is the 360 orbit (though I have seen contacts 'appear' after a hard turn).

 

Note: I added a airspawn as well and it showed the same behaviour i.e. required an orbit/hard turn before RWS would register any contacts.

 

Tested DCS 2.5.5.39384

 

@Decoy please check and forward bug report if required.

 

 

Thank you very much for taking the effort to investigate this further.

When you did a 360 degree turn first, did you turn on the radar as soon as it stopped blinking?

 

In my test I turned on the radar within seconds after it was ready, and I was thinking that perhaps there is a bug that causes the P to stop blinking before the radar is actually ready?

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Thank you very much for taking the effort to investigate this further.

When you did a 360 degree turn first, did you turn on the radar as soon as it stopped blinking?

 

More or less.

 

In my test I turned on the radar within seconds after it was ready, and I was thinking that perhaps there is a bug that causes the P to stop blinking before the radar is actually ready?

 

I was thinking the same at first, hence testing with an airspawn (Radar starts in Silent Mode) but it showed very similar behaviour - I couldn't detect the receding targets despite having good closure rates. Even when the MiG-23 turns (shows up on the RWR) and I knew altitude/distance, RWS still failed to detect it.

 

I've seen similar behaviour in a past report/track where the Mirage was spawned in the middle of a fight (several AI MiG-29 contacts within 15NM, yet undetectable on the radar). In that case the mission used scripts and was 'busy', so AI behaviour less predictable.

 

In that mission, if I 'reset' i.e. 180 turn to open up some distance, 'new' RWS contacts would appear when reengaging (I never worked out why the first contacts weren't detectable).

 

I don't see the same poor RWS detection in my own missions but my SOP is to put the Mirage into a autopilot orbit while Fencing In / Setting up / Joining Up, so perhaps I've just been lucky.


Edited by Ramsay

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If targets are flying away it could be due to similar speed of your and their aircraft.

 

That's what I thought initially but the MiG-23 was still undetectable when it turned 'hot' (+700 kts closure).

 

Looking at the closure rates in the OP's track in Tacview at ~2 min,

 

• MiG-23 @ -60 kts

• C-101 @ +100 kts

• Su-25T @ -2 kts

 

so only the Su-25T should have been undetected / filtered out at +/-20 kts.


Edited by Ramsay

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I have a similar issue, it's the same in the Baltic Dragon training missions as well as my own. For days I've been trying to keep a contact, but alas the radar keeps dropping the target and I can't re-acquire at all. Any help would be much appreciated. Cheers

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That's what I thought initially but the MiG-23 was still undetectable when it turned 'hot' (+700 kts closure).

 

Looking at the closure rates in the OP's track in Tacview at ~2 min,

 

• MiG-23 @ -60 kts

• C-101 @ +100 kts

• Su-25T @ -2 kts

 

so only the Su-25T should have been undetected / filtered out at +/-20 kts.

 

From my former test with a Su-25 turning away from me, I used to loose the lock below 60kt of radial velocity.

It may seems huge, but from HB manual on Tomcat it’s +/- 133kt.

 

So on M-2000C you would loose track:

+/- 60kt

around 0kt of closure speed. This one is because of ground return filtering.

 

This kind of thing isn’t specific to M-2000C in DCS. I did test F-15C with similar results.

 

If you want to test new radar behaviour make sure to have good closure speed. Otherwise it isn’t new and it isn’t a bug either.

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From my former test with a Su-25 turning away from me, I used to loose the lock below 60kt of radial velocity.

It may seems huge, but from HB manual on Tomcat it’s +/- 133kt.

 

So on M-2000C you would loose track:

+/- 60kt

around 0kt of closure speed. This one is because of ground return filtering.

 

Thanks, important info.

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From my former test with a Su-25 turning away from me, I used to loose the lock below 60kt of radial velocity.

It may seems huge, but from HB manual on Tomcat it’s +/- 133kt.

 

So on M-2000C you would loose track:

+/- 60kt

around 0kt of closure speed. This one is because of ground return filtering.

 

This kind of thing isn’t specific to M-2000C in DCS. I did test F-15C with similar results.

 

If you want to test new radar behaviour make sure to have good closure speed. Otherwise it isn’t new and it isn’t a bug either.

 

1. OP is below the target

2. This doesn't explain why contacts appear with the same parameters after an orbit. This implies the behavior is either broken before the orbit or after

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Arent all the special modes in pulse mode?

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Hi guys,

 

 

I have just play a mission and once again the radar has a wierd behaviour...

 

 

 

See the attached pictures :

When my elevation antenna is suppose to scan 3 to 21K (picture1) feet, I can still detect a bandit at 26K feet (picture2)...

 

 

Can someone explain us if the radar is really bug ? or if it is normal.

I can lock the target no problem, but my overall comment is that something is wrong with this radar... it behaves weirdly...

 

 

Thanks !

RADAR.thumb.png.737b1c19a66459de6be884438e4d90f7.png

RADAR_2.thumb.png.1f626d5ed5f62a6220b317c9e68f1448.png

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AFAIK detecting contacts at the wrong elevation is a known bug i.e. it was reported to Elwood on Razbam's discord last Friday/Saturday.

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Hmm after the latest update,even the boresight and vertical scan modes seem to have a hard time locking a target that is very close( <5nm) and in within HUD frame.Sometimes it took a long time while I was chasing a target in its 6 o clock position at 2-3 miles until it finally locked on.

 

Really hope that is not considered realistic as well..

 

These modes used to bit a lot more reliable at close range before update.

 

I know the radar is WIP, still hope there will be a least some improvement in usability,at least in regards to short range

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Snappy

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+1 from my side

 

One standard quick mission - A2A Guns only - Vertical scan sometimes doesn't see any targets placed just in front of my Mirage on distance <1 nm

 

Experiencing the same. I can have vertical scan (what I tend to use in a gunfight) locked on target, then I might loose lock / track of bandit, I get the bandit back inside the search area, even on my nose, and nothing. Doesnt matter if towards the sky or ground. I then have to cycle the combat modes a little to kinda force it to pick up the lock again.

 

Kinda feels like the radar elevation stayed where I lost the lock maybe (in one of the extremes), and it has to be reset kinda to come back again - Just pure speculation.

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I'm so glad this isn't just me. I was beginning to wonder. I'm having huge problems seeing targets on the radar, and I'm sure the conditions are right for them to be showing.

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Is it not possible to use the pca to select the Magics anymore - only through the joystick mapping? Is that how it is IRL? Cheers

 

 

Still having loads of problems myself with disappearing radar contacts.

 

 

 

EDIT -Found a post by Jojo, Magic select is how it should be.


Edited by mr_mojo97

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Experiencing the same. I can have vertical scan (what I tend to use in a gunfight) locked on target, then I might loose lock / track of bandit, I get the bandit back inside the search area, even on my nose, and nothing. Doesnt matter if towards the sky or ground. I then have to cycle the combat modes a little to kinda force it to pick up the lock again.

 

Kinda feels like the radar elevation stayed where I lost the lock maybe (in one of the extremes), and it has to be reset kinda to come back again - Just pure speculation.

 

Sounds like a notching problem.

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Kinda feels like the radar elevation stayed where I lost the lock maybe (in one of the extremes), and it has to be reset kinda to come back again - Just pure speculation.

 

I have seen similar behaviour when switching from a Close Combat SST lock back to RWS (the VTB elevation indicator was near the bottom of it's scale and needed moving back to the horizon).

 

I forget if I needed an 'extra' "Weapon SystemCMD Depress" before RWS started detecting contacts again but it's previously selected elevation had definitely changed.

 

Most of the time the Close Combat modes don't effect the RWS elevation setting, so I'm not sure on the exact sequence to replicate the problem.

 

I haven't tested further as it seems clear the new radar behaviour is WIP.


Edited by Ramsay

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