malcheus Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) I seem to remember from earlier versions that the radar worked a lot better. The last week, it has been working very poorly for me. So I was wondering whether I'm doing something wrong? To test this I made a simple mission with a few air targets flying away from me at different altitudes. Here are a few screenshots to illustrate how poorly the radar is working: 2 targets, almost straight ahead, slightly higher than meradar pointing straight ahead at HRF, no contacts (even after letting it fully scan a few times). a bit later one of the AI's misbehaved by turning towards me: even at 8.6NM I don't see him on the radar Then I turned on the special mode and it instantly locks. I also attached the track. Curious to hear whether I am missing something, or whether this is a bug. Thanks beforehand for thinking along! edit: perhaps related to the other thread about contacts blinking? I have also seen that, but in this case I don't see any contacts at all....AA_radar_test.trk Edited November 23, 2019 by malcheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 TL;DR: Thanks for including your track, I'm not sure what's going on exactly perhaps it's related to the radar warm up and/or your distance/altitude (targets are at 10,000ft@10MN, while you are down at 2,500ft), but there does seem something wrong if you don't do a 360° orbit first. Detail I saw the same behaviour until I changed my procedure a little (I took control of your track on the runway). At take off the radar is in warm up with the 'P' flashing. Instead of turning left (towards the target aircraft) turn right and enter a right hand orbit at ~5,000 ft. • Once the 'P' stops flashing, switch the radar to active. • F10 map for target direction and distance. • Set the appropriate radar scale and head in that direction. I usually picked up the MiG-23 @ 8,700ft and 23-28 NM. The crucial part is the 360 orbit (though I have seen contacts 'appear' after a hard turn). Note: I added a airspawn as well and it showed the same behaviour i.e. required an orbit/hard turn before RWS would register any contacts. Tested DCS 2.5.5.39384 @Decoy please check and forward bug report if required.M2K RWS only works after 360 orbit, 2_5_5_39384.trk i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcheus Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 TL;DR: Thanks for including your track, I'm not sure what's going on exactly perhaps it's related to the radar warm up and/or your distance/altitude (targets are at 10,000ft@10MN, while you are down at 2,500ft), but there does seem something wrong if you don't do a 360° orbit first. Detail I saw the same behaviour until I changed my procedure a little (I took control of your track on the runway). At take off the radar is in warm up with the 'P' flashing. Instead of turning left (towards the target aircraft) turn right and enter a right hand orbit at ~5,000 ft. • Once the 'P' stops flashing, switch the radar to active. • F10 map for target direction and distance. • Set the appropriate radar scale and head in that direction. I usually picked up the MiG-23 @ 8,700ft and 23-28 NM. The crucial part is the 360 orbit (though I have seen contacts 'appear' after a hard turn). Note: I added a airspawn as well and it showed the same behaviour i.e. required an orbit/hard turn before RWS would register any contacts. Tested DCS 2.5.5.39384 @Decoy please check and forward bug report if required. Thank you very much for taking the effort to investigate this further. When you did a 360 degree turn first, did you turn on the radar as soon as it stopped blinking? In my test I turned on the radar within seconds after it was ready, and I was thinking that perhaps there is a bug that causes the P to stop blinking before the radar is actually ready? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) Thank you very much for taking the effort to investigate this further. When you did a 360 degree turn first, did you turn on the radar as soon as it stopped blinking? More or less. In my test I turned on the radar within seconds after it was ready, and I was thinking that perhaps there is a bug that causes the P to stop blinking before the radar is actually ready? I was thinking the same at first, hence testing with an airspawn (Radar starts in Silent Mode) but it showed very similar behaviour - I couldn't detect the receding targets despite having good closure rates. Even when the MiG-23 turns (shows up on the RWR) and I knew altitude/distance, RWS still failed to detect it. I've seen similar behaviour in a past report/track where the Mirage was spawned in the middle of a fight (several AI MiG-29 contacts within 15NM, yet undetectable on the radar). In that case the mission used scripts and was 'busy', so AI behaviour less predictable. In that mission, if I 'reset' i.e. 180 turn to open up some distance, 'new' RWS contacts would appear when reengaging (I never worked out why the first contacts weren't detectable). I don't see the same poor RWS detection in my own missions but my SOP is to put the Mirage into a autopilot orbit while Fencing In / Setting up / Joining Up, so perhaps I've just been lucky. Edited November 25, 2019 by Ramsay i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DackSter94 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 If targets are flying away it could be due to similar speed of your and their aircraft. However radar seems to be very much broken, specially something about radar elevation. LOOK MA, NO HOOK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) If targets are flying away it could be due to similar speed of your and their aircraft. That's what I thought initially but the MiG-23 was still undetectable when it turned 'hot' (+700 kts closure). Looking at the closure rates in the OP's track in Tacview at ~2 min, • MiG-23 @ -60 kts • C-101 @ +100 kts • Su-25T @ -2 kts so only the Su-25T should have been undetected / filtered out at +/-20 kts. Edited November 25, 2019 by Ramsay i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_mojo97 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 I have a similar issue, it's the same in the Baltic Dragon training missions as well as my own. For days I've been trying to keep a contact, but alas the radar keeps dropping the target and I can't re-acquire at all. Any help would be much appreciated. CheersCluster.trk MSI M5 z270 | Intel i5 7600k (OC) 4.8GHz | MSI GTX1080ti Gaming X 11Gb | 500gb Samsung 970 Evo NVME M.2 (DCS World) | 500gb Samsung 850 Evo SSD (OS and Apps) | 32Gb 2400MHz DDR4 - Crucial Ballistix | Be Quiet Silent Loop 240mm | NZXT H440 case | Thrustmaster Warthog - 47608 with Virpil Mongoose joystick base | MFG Crosswinds - 1241 | Westland Lynx collective with Bodnar X board | Pilot's seat from ZH832 Merlin | JetSeat | Oculus Rift S | Windows 10 | VA | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 That's what I thought initially but the MiG-23 was still undetectable when it turned 'hot' (+700 kts closure). Looking at the closure rates in the OP's track in Tacview at ~2 min, • MiG-23 @ -60 kts • C-101 @ +100 kts • Su-25T @ -2 kts so only the Su-25T should have been undetected / filtered out at +/-20 kts. From my former test with a Su-25 turning away from me, I used to loose the lock below 60kt of radial velocity. It may seems huge, but from HB manual on Tomcat it’s +/- 133kt. So on M-2000C you would loose track: +/- 60kt around 0kt of closure speed. This one is because of ground return filtering. This kind of thing isn’t specific to M-2000C in DCS. I did test F-15C with similar results. If you want to test new radar behaviour make sure to have good closure speed. Otherwise it isn’t new and it isn’t a bug either. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 From my former test with a Su-25 turning away from me, I used to loose the lock below 60kt of radial velocity. It may seems huge, but from HB manual on Tomcat it’s +/- 133kt. So on M-2000C you would loose track: +/- 60kt around 0kt of closure speed. This one is because of ground return filtering. Thanks, important info. i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRifleRound Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 From my former test with a Su-25 turning away from me, I used to loose the lock below 60kt of radial velocity. It may seems huge, but from HB manual on Tomcat it’s +/- 133kt. So on M-2000C you would loose track: +/- 60kt around 0kt of closure speed. This one is because of ground return filtering. This kind of thing isn’t specific to M-2000C in DCS. I did test F-15C with similar results. If you want to test new radar behaviour make sure to have good closure speed. Otherwise it isn’t new and it isn’t a bug either. 1. OP is below the target 2. This doesn't explain why contacts appear with the same parameters after an orbit. This implies the behavior is either broken before the orbit or after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcheus Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 Also switching to "special modes" (ie. boresight or horizon scan), instantly locks a target that was previously invisible on the regular scanning mode. Their special-ness should not be resistant to ground-effect or low closure speeds I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knock-Knock Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Arent all the special modes in pulse mode? - Jack of many DCS modules, master of none. - Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS. | Windows 11 | i5-12400 | 64Gb DDR4 | RTX 3080 | 2x M.2 | 27" 1440p | Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind pedals | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moody1204 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Hi guys, I have just play a mission and once again the radar has a wierd behaviour... See the attached pictures : When my elevation antenna is suppose to scan 3 to 21K (picture1) feet, I can still detect a bandit at 26K feet (picture2)... Can someone explain us if the radar is really bug ? or if it is normal. I can lock the target no problem, but my overall comment is that something is wrong with this radar... it behaves weirdly... Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 AFAIK detecting contacts at the wrong elevation is a known bug i.e. it was reported to Elwood on Razbam's discord last Friday/Saturday. i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snappy Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Hmm after the latest update,even the boresight and vertical scan modes seem to have a hard time locking a target that is very close( <5nm) and in within HUD frame.Sometimes it took a long time while I was chasing a target in its 6 o clock position at 2-3 miles until it finally locked on. Really hope that is not considered realistic as well.. These modes used to bit a lot more reliable at close range before update. I know the radar is WIP, still hope there will be a least some improvement in usability,at least in regards to short range Regards, Snappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kievbsm Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 +1 from my side One standard quick mission - A2A Guns only - Vertical scan sometimes doesn't see any targets placed just in front of my Mirage on distance <1 nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knock-Knock Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 +1 from my side One standard quick mission - A2A Guns only - Vertical scan sometimes doesn't see any targets placed just in front of my Mirage on distance <1 nm Experiencing the same. I can have vertical scan (what I tend to use in a gunfight) locked on target, then I might loose lock / track of bandit, I get the bandit back inside the search area, even on my nose, and nothing. Doesnt matter if towards the sky or ground. I then have to cycle the combat modes a little to kinda force it to pick up the lock again. Kinda feels like the radar elevation stayed where I lost the lock maybe (in one of the extremes), and it has to be reset kinda to come back again - Just pure speculation. - Jack of many DCS modules, master of none. - Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS. | Windows 11 | i5-12400 | 64Gb DDR4 | RTX 3080 | 2x M.2 | 27" 1440p | Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind pedals | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imacken Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I'm so glad this isn't just me. I was beginning to wonder. I'm having huge problems seeing targets on the radar, and I'm sure the conditions are right for them to be showing. Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_mojo97 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Is it not possible to use the pca to select the Magics anymore - only through the joystick mapping? Is that how it is IRL? Cheers Still having loads of problems myself with disappearing radar contacts. EDIT -Found a post by Jojo, Magic select is how it should be. Edited November 30, 2019 by mr_mojo97 MSI M5 z270 | Intel i5 7600k (OC) 4.8GHz | MSI GTX1080ti Gaming X 11Gb | 500gb Samsung 970 Evo NVME M.2 (DCS World) | 500gb Samsung 850 Evo SSD (OS and Apps) | 32Gb 2400MHz DDR4 - Crucial Ballistix | Be Quiet Silent Loop 240mm | NZXT H440 case | Thrustmaster Warthog - 47608 with Virpil Mongoose joystick base | MFG Crosswinds - 1241 | Westland Lynx collective with Bodnar X board | Pilot's seat from ZH832 Merlin | JetSeat | Oculus Rift S | Windows 10 | VA | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Experiencing the same. I can have vertical scan (what I tend to use in a gunfight) locked on target, then I might loose lock / track of bandit, I get the bandit back inside the search area, even on my nose, and nothing. Doesnt matter if towards the sky or ground. I then have to cycle the combat modes a little to kinda force it to pick up the lock again. Kinda feels like the radar elevation stayed where I lost the lock maybe (in one of the extremes), and it has to be reset kinda to come back again - Just pure speculation. Sounds like a notching problem. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) Kinda feels like the radar elevation stayed where I lost the lock maybe (in one of the extremes), and it has to be reset kinda to come back again - Just pure speculation. I have seen similar behaviour when switching from a Close Combat SST lock back to RWS (the VTB elevation indicator was near the bottom of it's scale and needed moving back to the horizon). I forget if I needed an 'extra' "Weapon SystemCMD Depress" before RWS started detecting contacts again but it's previously selected elevation had definitely changed. Most of the time the Close Combat modes don't effect the RWS elevation setting, so I'm not sure on the exact sequence to replicate the problem. I haven't tested further as it seems clear the new radar behaviour is WIP. Edited December 1, 2019 by Ramsay i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts