[WIP] Proper IFF when?

This may clear some confusion up.

The real problem here is not iff, its your dependance on it. Iff is not meant to be some magical system to allow you to air quake, it is one method to determine if an ac is friendly or not.

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The real problem here is not iff, its your dependance on it. Iff is not meant to be some magical system to allow you to air quake, it is one method to determine if an ac is friendly or not.

 

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Militaries rarely spend billions of dollars with the intent of building systems on which one cannot depend .

If it works like that in game = It’s broken... that’s kinda the point we are making. I’ve had contacts go from enemy to friendly back to enemy again all while within 15 miles and all in the pitch ladder. It’s torally unreliable.

none of you are listening or getting it. It will work if you put the contact in the ladder. Depending on the aspect of the target it will return friendly or enemy. Its not broken and works reliably in game is my point. So if you say its not working for you, maybe you should re read how i explained it does work. There is also more variables to the IFF. Its just not a range/lock.

So far no one in here gets it, but thats on them if they don't want to listen. You can identify the contact, yes its broken and not how it should work, but if you follow the rules the IFF will keep you from killing friendlies.

you guys will be punished even harder by real iff lmao

Militaries rarely spend billions of dollars with the intent of building systems on which one cannot depend .

I'bet it all that no shot in RL has ever been fired on IFF identification alone.

The problem is people on these pvp servers wanting to go in guns blazing, without following proper rules of engagement. If your IFF is showing inconsistent solution, don't fire, evaluate whether you can press or should disengage. Obviously AWACS is a great help with this process.

]Depending on the aspect of the target it will return friendly or enemy. Its not broken and works reliably in game is my point.

I , for one , don't "get" what you are saying . Those two sentences seem directly contradictory to me . Proper IFF (the subject of this thread) has nothing to do with aspect , and knowing aspect is of little use when Identifying an aircraft as friendly or not . And your statement regarding "range or lock" leaves me even more confused !

No it does not clear up confusion because it's not the problem people are having with it.

 

Targets are also changing from hostile to friendly back to hostile, only to find out they are indeed hostile, at which point you've lost the opportunity for a kill and end up getting killed.

 

Targets are flipping back and forth from hostile to friendly and back again based on some weird aspect thing that doesn't at all reflect the fact that IFF is a transponder function, which has nothing whatsoever to do with aspect changes or closure rates.

That video doesn't explain how the iff works correct.

You can try this, if you locked a friendly that flying in front of you, and put him in your ladder he will return as a diamond. Now wait till the contract turns hot, and it will iff to friendly. 100%.

with that being said, you can really keep yourself from blue on blue. But there is other quarks to the iff currently. But if you just follow even that rule you'll be safe.

I , for one , don't "get" what you are saying . Those two sentences seem directly contradictory to me . Proper IFF (the subject of this thread) has nothing to do with aspect , and knowing aspect is of little use when Identifying an aircraft as friendly or not . And your statement regarding "range or lock" leaves me even more confused !

Read the 1st sentence of the thread please. He is saying iff is useless; and doesn't work. Which he is incorrect it does work and im telling him how, at least trying.

Im sure proper iff have nothing to do w/ aspect also, and i know nothing of how iff works. just trying to tell you how it works in game currently to maybe solve your team killing extravaganza.

I'bet it all that no shot in RL has ever been fired on IFF identification alone.

 

The problem is people on these pvp servers wanting to go in guns blazing, without following proper rules of engagement. If your IFF is showing inconsistent solution, don't fire, evaluate whether you can press or should disengage. Obviously AWACS is a great help with this process.

AI Awacs is not . The biggest reason that IFF is not a fire-solution alone IRL is non-combatant or neutral aircraft-neither of which are a factor in DCS . Any aircraft in DCS that is not a friendly is trying to kill you . And IRL Awacs don't vector you on an aircraft 100 miles away when there is a threat 15 miles away at your 10 .

The same people that you speak of will not take the trouble to check the mode or input the code . The people interested in this thread will .

Are you sure it's not due to multiplayer de-sync or your track degrading (MEM cue flashing)? I observe consistent IFF performance so long as I keep it in the HUD ladder. Aspect does not seem to matter as flank, hot, and cold aspect tracks all properly show the IFF response.

Check the attached screenshots. I followed all of the targets for a sustained period of time with the target cue in the HUD ladder. It was a solid box the whole time. In particular I followed the cold aspect target (first screenshot) for a long time with time acceleration on and did not observe the box reverting to a diamond except when I let it drift outside of the HUD ladder.

The real problem here is not iff, its your dependance on it. Iff is not meant to be some magical system to allow you to air quake, it is one method to determine if an ac is friendly or not.

 

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It's a pretty huge thing IRL, an F-18 and a Tornado were both shot down by patriot batteries early in OIF for not squawking the correct codes. Most modern ROEs require LOF (lack of friendly, not squawking the right codes) + PID (positive id, your aircraft has determined it is an Su-27 by various classified means) before shooting, but in the full out wars in DCS you can't really expect that partially due to how bad the radars are and partially due to how bad the missiles are. You lock onto someone that isn't showing friendly, you basically have to shoot very quickly or you're just aborting with a losing situation and no missiles in the air. US tactics are based on an ID from far beyond visual range, so it's reasonable to expect a decent IFF out of the DCS hornet.

Put the contact in your ladder, it will IFF based on if the the contact is hot or cold will return different results. If the contact is lagging or losing lock will return friendly(even if enemy). This works both ways so if you lock a friendly cold, it will return a diamond IFF in the ladder.

 

All you told me was you had locked a target at 15nm. that isn't how the iff works.

It was a hard rws lock @20nm on 23.000 feet. The enemy was a F-16 (diamant). The enemy was in the ladder ( permanent ).

I was waiting for something to change (5nm long ). Then I shot ! #diamant 15nm.

5-10 seconds after the shot the diamond became a square. The rocket hit a f/a-18c.

I can not do anything with it...

Are you sure it's not due to multiplayer de-sync or your track degrading (MEM cue flashing)? I observe consistent IFF performance so long as I keep it in the HUD ladder. Aspect does not seem to matter as flank, hot, and cold aspect tracks all properly show the IFF response.

 

Check the attached screenshots. I followed all of the targets for a sustained period of time with the target cue in the HUD ladder. It was a solid box the whole time. In particular I followed the cold aspect target (first screenshot) for a long time with time acceleration on and did not observe the box reverting to a diamond except when I let it drift outside of the HUD ladder.

If the contact is enemy so diamond and hot contact then starts to evade, turn cold or packet loss, high ping/desync the contact will show friendly. I've seen friendlies as diamond cold, then when hot turn square in the ladder. Then when losing lock, turning cold that friendly will return diamond, until hot, clear solution will show correct iff. Multiplayer desync has a lot to do w/ iff also, yes.

It was a hard rws lock @20nm on 23.000 feet. The enemy was a F-16 (diamant). The enemy was in the ladder ( permanent ).

I was waiting for something to change (5nm long ). Then I shot ! #diamant 15nm.

5-10 seconds after the shot the diamond became a square. The rocket hit a f/a-18c.

I can not do anything with it...

So can we all agree yet that IFF of the F-18 should just super easy mode FC3 F-15C style until it is implemented properly? Sorry guys, I'm not a programmer, so I don't know if you can make it the easy ball on the radar screen, but that should be what's done until everything can be sorted.

Just stop trying to do a proper IFF until is is finished and use the old school version until then, please. The F-18 is handicapped enough in BVR as the radar is so bad (though I haven't tried the new release that is supposedly good.)

So can we all agree yet that IFF of the F-18 should just super easy mode FC3 F-15C style until it is implemented properly? Sorry guys, I'm not a programmer, so I don't know if you can make it the easy ball on the radar screen, but that should be what's done until everything can be sorted.

 

Just stop trying to do a proper IFF until is is finished and use the old school version until then, please. The F-18 is handicapped enough in BVR as the radar is so bad (though I haven't tried the new release that is supposedly good.)

It'll get better when we get whichever radar mode lets you check on screen. and hopefully somebody testing in ED can replicate the issue and determine whether it needs to be fixed.

Personally, I don't fly the Hornet in MP yet, as I've run into this in both single player and MP. I stick to the Mirage or fc3 aircraft for CAP because I don't want to be one of the 8 guys yelling "raygun" every 5 seconds. Don't particularly enjoy having to say "Buddy" every 5 seconds either, given I'm flying on a server with folks on comms.

I'm not all that upset about it as we're still in Early access.

Personally I could care less about having to enter codes though. I just want IFF that doesn't change it's mind like ours does, and I'd fly the bug in MP as often as possible. For now it's too much of a liability in my hands without a hotshot GCI or awacs, and even then I'm constantly second guessing whether what I've got locked is friendly or not. It just takes too much guess work vs su-27, f-15c, mirage 2000C, mig-29s, su-33, hopefully soon the f-14. All of which are still fun to fly, and rightly present on the most populated MP servers. It is at a disadvantage in BVR imo due to this. Even WVR, cuz I'm like using WMR. (pun?)

That video doesn't explain how the iff works correct.

 

You can try this, if you locked a friendly that flying in front of you, and put him in your ladder he will return as a diamond. Now wait till the contract turns hot, and it will iff to friendly. 100%.

 

with that being said, you can really keep yourself from blue on blue. But there is other quarks to the iff currently. But if you just follow even that rule you'll be safe.

The IFF in-game is buggy and doesn't work.

Though ED said they will be fixing it ASAP, apparently together with SA and Data Link.

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Read the 1st sentence of the thread please. He is saying iff is useless; and doesn't work. Which he is incorrect it does work and im telling him how, at least trying.

 

Im sure proper iff have nothing to do w/ aspect also, and i know nothing of how iff works. just trying to tell you how it works in game currently to maybe solve your team killing extravaganza.

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That'll make for some interesting team kill discussions / server boots where people on the same side have the wrong codes entered / wrong mode active.

Exactly! This will make things much more interesting, especially when the neutral coalition gets implemented properly. I'm really tired of the all knowing magic IFF system of DCS that even gives you a positive answer when you interrogate an aircraft that does not have turned its IFF transponder on or doesn't even have such a transponder...

I read the first sentence and he is right. It doesn't work! It doesn't bit identify friendly from foe so it doesn't work, we don't care about what you find out: hot, cold, ladder...

 

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Pretty sure your misunderstanding and interpreting it wrong. Iff works.

Pretty sure your misunderstanding and interpreting it wrong. Iff works.

You are alone in this forum who thinks that IFF works.

By the way, IFF works wrongly = IFF doesnt work.

You are alone in this forum who thinks that IFF works.

 

By the way, IFF works wrongly = IFF doesnt work.

And saying it will not iff correctly and causing team kills in MP is incorrect. The way iff implemented in game is wrong. Not sure how your not understanding any of this. I don’t speak German sorry.

...yes its broken and not how it should work.

THIS is what we are getting at. Not whether you've found some way to make it work for you. We aren't talking about whether IFF can sometimes produce the right result if you do a bunch of things you shouldn't have to do in real life. We are saying that it doesn't meet expected realistic results... OR if it is supposedly realistic then can we have some proof that it is so?

I've pretty much stopped using the Hornet for CAP mission in MP and stick with the F-15 just because my survivability in the FC3 Eagle is better.

And saying it will not iff correctly and causing team kills in MP is incorrect. The way iff implemented in game is wrong. Not sure how your not understanding any of this. I don’t speak German sorry.

it seems that you are the one who dosnt understand anybody on this thread and nobody understands you.

You can spin it as you wish. The IFF doesnt NOT work.