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Missing feature of the cooling system?


Magic Zach

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[ATTACH]199923[/ATTACH]

Where are those coolant relief valves in DCS?

 

[ATTACH]199927[/ATTACH]

Did some Mustangs not have them? Looking at the livery for the Mustang, I don't even see anything that could be an outlet. Am I missing something, or is DCS?

 

 

With the Mustang makeover on its way, isn't now a good time to take a look at this, and flesh out some things from the old module?

 

From the maintenance manual on the engine cooling system:

[ATTACH]200117[/ATTACH]

 

From the maintenance manual on the aftercooling system:

[ATTACH]200118[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]200125[/ATTACH]

A P-51 with its aftercoolant vent exit beneath the rearmost stack. The engine coolant is in the same location on the other side. I shuffled through a lot of photos, and I've seen these vents in all close up photos of the Mustang D and B/C's stacks.

 

[ATTACH]200124[/ATTACH]

A P-51D's aftercoolant vent exit.

[ATTACH]200123[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]200122[/ATTACH]

Not modeled in DCS, or even textured. Because it's so small, texturing it would almost be just a dark dot, but this should clear up where the pressure is released from the Mustang.

 

 

 

Word of "mouth" from Rich Palmer on Facebook:

“When it gets too hot.

If the Aftercooler pops off the engine is probably toast as that system runs coolant around a Supercharger Bearing and the Aftercooler. If really can’t normally build up enough heat.

The Main Coolant System can pop off a bit on occasion on takeoff on a hot day depending on how you operate the Coolant Exit Door.

If you have a failure of the auto system of the coolant door actuator the door will close all the way and never open. That can overheat things before you realize. You can then manually open the door with a cockpit switch.

A complete failure of the Electric Coolant Door Actuator or of the A/C Electrical system can also stop the door in a position where it can overheat. There is an Emergency release of the coolant door strut that will drop the door open a few inches further than the normal position. You may also have to limit the power you run on the motor to manage temps.

Other factors that can influence your temps are a radiator that has issues. Could be blocked tubes internally or the mesh of fins can break down and separate from the vertical tubes causing a decrease in its efficiency.

The Radiator Door acts as a thermostat for the system to maintain the coolant temp in a desired narrow range. It’s pretty good at doing that all things considered.”

 

 

Word of "mouth" from Robin Collord:

"I took off with the coolant door in auto...on a hot Louisiana day. ( Normally I always took off with the doors open and would go auto after take off.) right after the gear were up and checks accomplished....the pop off relieved and the right side of the windshield and canopy was covered with coolant steam. I knew immediately what the problem was and returned to land and check for problems....luckily it was OK. A quick call back to Aero Sport made me feel better (Supe Hoisington and Dick Harrison ) gave some idea on things to check and monitor."


Edited by Magic Zach
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[ATTACH]199923[/ATTACH]

Where are those coolant relief valves in DCS?

 

 

How did you get the cowling off to see them? (or that they weren't there to be more accurate?)

 

 

Mine has been shot off by a helpful 109 once but I didn't really have time to admire all of the detail hidden by the engine cowling and did not notice the absence (or not) of the relief valves.

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The valve is on top of the header tank, but a vent line takes that and spits it out the right side.

Same for the aftercoolant, vent line directs it out the plane.

 

Though, I have read a recount of a pilot that had his valve blow, but instead of following an (assumed, if there was one) vent line, it inconveniently sprayed coolant all over his canopy. Not sure what version of the Mustang he was flying, though.

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I vaguely recall that this came up once before, and that the valves are for maintenance only.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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I vaguely recall that this came up once before, and that the valves are for maintenance only.
Other than straight up removal of the vent line, this is the closest section of the maintenance manual to that.94f7cb33a2713dcd8ed314664123e6b4.jpg3201af226004bc73f07bfa4d9bae8fd9.jpg
Edited by Magic Zach

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The cockpit coolant pressure relief valve is there. Works, too.
Erm...that's the hydraulic pressure release. Not coolant ;)

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PSI for both coolant and aftercoolant03883292b85b0db8917afbf8fd026425.jpgccc8553aa3bbccaadec7411e25c6a3d2.jpg


Edited by Magic Zach

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Word of "mouth" from Rich Palmer on Facebook.

 

“When it gets too hot.

If the Aftercooler pops off the engine is probably toast as that system runs coolant around a Supercharger Bearing and the Aftercooler. If really can’t normally build up enough heat.

The Main Coolant System can pop off a bit on occasion on takeoff on a hot day depending on how you operate the Coolant Exit Door.

If you have a failure of the auto system of the coolant door actuator the door will close all the way and never open. That can overheat things before you realize. You can then manually open the door with a cockpit switch.

A complete failure of the Electric Coolant Door Actuator or of the A/C Electrical system can also stop the door in a position where it can overheat. There is an Emergency release of the coolant door strut that will drop the door open a few inches further than the normal position. You may also have to limit the power you run on the motor to manage temps.

Other factors that can influence your temps are a radiator that has issues. Could be blocked tubes internally or the mesh of fins can break down and separate from the vertical tubes causing a decrease in its efficiency.

The Radiator Door acts as a thermostat for the system to maintain the coolant temp in a desired narrow range. It’s pretty good at doing that all things considered.”

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

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Ach, right you are Zach, it's the hydraulic pressure vent. The morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet I notice... but if the primary use for those valves would be maintenance, does it really make a difference from our POV?

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Ach, right you are Zach, it's the hydraulic pressure vent. The morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet I notice... but if the primary use for those valves would be maintenance, does it really make a difference from our POV?
I said it wasn't really for maintenance. I think what you mean is the drain plug. That is used for maintenance

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The vent exits for both left and right are located beneath the rearmost exhaust on each side. I shuffled through a good number of photos of Mustangs, D through B/C, and they all have this exit.

[ATTACH]200106[/ATTACH]

 

P-51D-20...

 

[ATTACH]200109[/ATTACH]

...with one of the two exits

 

[ATTACH]200108[/ATTACH]

better photo

 

[ATTACH]200105[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]200114[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]200113[/ATTACH]

 

Not there in the DCS P-51, as of now

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Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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Word of "mouth" from Robin Collord:

 

"I took off with the coolant door in auto...on a hot Louisiana day. ( Normally I always took off with the doors open and would go auto after take off.) right after the gear were up and checks accomplished....the pop off relieved and the right side of the windshield and canopy was covered with coolant steam. I knew immediately what the problem was and returned to land and check for problems....luckily it was OK. A quick call back to Aero Sport made me feel better (Supe Hoisington and Dick Harrison ) gave some idea on things to check and monitor."

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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  • 3 months later...

I would appreciate it if an admin on this forum like Nineline or Yo-Yo dropped a word here...


Edited by Magic Zach

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Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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  • 2 weeks later...
Interesting, Im surprised something like this was not modelled if it has something to do with in flight procedures. Considering the 109 has its left and right coolant cutoff cockpit controls functioning in DCS.
I hope ED takes a look over it again, when they redesign the cooling dynamics of these engines.

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do i understand this right this vent valves are for safty in case of coollant over pressure building too fast??

in dcs i alwayes just before take off roll open coolant radiator shut as i noticed the transversal of radiator shuts are way to slow during take off and p-51 alwayes overheats during my take off. with radiator manual open temps are in check


Edited by grafspee

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do i understand this right this vent valves are for safty in case of coollant over pressure building too fast??

in dcs i alwayes just before take off roll open coolant radiator shut as i noticed the transversal of radiator shuts are way to slow during take off and p-51 alwayes overheats during my take off. with radiator manual open temps are in check

When the coolant PSI was 30 or higher, or 1.5PSI higher than the atmospheric pressure, the valve would pop. According to the maintenance manual (which not only has info for maintenance, but other details like this as well, for many different systems. It's big, a ~600 page manual split between two halves). Aftercoolant popped at 18-20PSI.

Apparently, according to Rich, if the aftercoolant popped, then you were really screwed. Popping the coolant wasn't as big a deal.

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When the coolant PSI was 30 or higher, or 1.5PSI higher than the atmospheric pressure, the valve would pop. According to the maintenance manual (which not only has info for maintenance, but other details like this as well, for many different systems. It's big, a ~600 page manual split between two halves). Aftercoolant popped at 18-20PSI.

Apparently, according to Rich, if the aftercoolant popped, then you were really screwed. Popping the coolant wasn't as big a deal.

 

first i though that you are talking about inHg but aster a split second i realised that you are talking about PSI so 1 atmosphere is about 14.5 PSI so if coolant pops up above 30PSI this leading to 15.5psi overpressure not 1.5psi 1.5psi overpressure in cooling system hiting good 130 celcius would by a little too low i think.


Edited by grafspee

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first i though that you are talking about inHg but aster a split second i realised that you are talking about PSI so 1 atmosphere is about 14.5 PSI so if coolant pops up above 30PSI this leading to 15.5psi overpressure not 1.5psi 1.5psi overpressure in cooling system hiting good 130 celcius would by a little too low i think.
Where are you pulling 15.5 from?

I think I didn't word it clearly enough. The coolant relief valve will pop of either of the conditions occur (according to the text in the maintenance manual):

A:The pressure in the coolant system exceeds 30PSI

B:The pressure in the header tank is 1.5PSI below the pressure of the surrounding atmosphere.

 

I would imagine that last one would be heavily dependent on altitude. Thinking about it, for that last one, the valve would pop to let pressure IN, rather than out. Right? I'd imagine that would mean the valve would pop if (for example) you suddenly dived from 25,000ft to 5,000ft in 30 seconds?

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When the coolant PSI was 30 or higher, or 1.5PSI higher than the atmospheric pressure, the valve would pop. According to the maintenance manual (which not only has info for maintenance, but other details like this as well, for many different systems. It's big, a ~600 page manual split between two halves). Aftercoolant popped at 18-20PSI.

Apparently, according to Rich, if the aftercoolant popped, then you were really screwed. Popping the coolant wasn't as big a deal.

 

this is what you typed "When the coolant PSI was 30 or higher, or 1.5PSI higher than the atmospheric pressure" how i suposed to understant that becouse 30PSI is alredy twice the atmosphereic pressure already

ok i did read this part of manual 1-1/2 psi is vacuum relief valve ok i get it now 1-1/2 below atmospheric pressure


Edited by grafspee

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  • 1 month later...

Giving this a bump. I have heard cooling is getting an overhaul in the warbirds, down the road. I don't want this to be missed.

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Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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  • 1 year later...

been over a year...

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Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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