Question about flaps in combat

While watching the streams of the Bf-109 tournament, I noticed most of the pilots extending their flaps and keeping them deployed throughout the duration of their match.

I did a quick search on the forums but didn't find much info on this. Is this pretty common of the 109 community? What do you gain with flaps extended during a 1v1 against a 109 or against the P-51D? I'd also be curious if this was common practice with real world Luftwaffe pilots...given the fact that it had to be manually operated (in reference to previous discussions of stick forces).

Thanks in advance guys.

-SLACK

Before the whole slats fiasco I used to use them alot more than I do now. In general yes a little bit of flaps (5° or so) helps the turn but bleeds speed alot as well. Especially when you get slow.

I went into the tournament without doing any research into this subject.. so the first match I fought without flaps.

After some experimenting and sparring and advice from others I went on to use two lines of flaps for sustained turn (as visible on the wing when flaps are deployed).

After even more experimenting, sparring and advice from others, I ended up using mainly one line of flaps in the final fight. I felt that this was the best recipe on average for sustained turn rate. For rolling scissors I sometimes deployed two lines as the turns required are tighter and made at slower airspeeds, and for flat scissors I sometimes went as far as full flaps during the tournament. With full flaps the idea is that turn rate is of minimal importance, it's all about flying as slow as possible.

However, to come into any tangible, measurable conclusion as to what flap setting percentage combined with what airspeed gives the best sustained turn rate a scientific study should be conducted. And I'm not going to do that in the near future :)

I have no idea how the flaps were used in real life. But I would guess that pilots may have been instructed to refrain from touching them since it would be too much of a distraction...

I went into the tournament without doing any research into this subject.. so the first match I fought without flaps.

 

After some experimenting and sparring and advice from others I went on to use two lines of flaps for sustained turn (as visible on the wing when flaps are deployed).

 

After even more experimenting, sparring and advice from others, I ended up using mainly one line of flaps in the final fight. I felt that this was the best recipe on average for sustained turn rate. For rolling scissors I sometimes deployed two lines as the turns required are tighter and made at slower airspeeds, and for flat scissors I sometimes went as far as full flaps during the tournament. With full flaps the idea is that turn rate is of minimal importance, it's all about flying as slow as possible.

 

However, to come into any tangible, measurable conclusion as to what flap setting percentage combined with what airspeed gives the best sustained turn rate a scientific study should be conducted. And I'm not going to do that in the near future :)

 

I have no idea how the flaps were used in real life. But I would guess that pilots may have been instructed to refrain from touching them since it would be too much of a distraction...

Interesting points....I'm waiting on the Tacview files to study the telemetry as well as the flap positions. In general...did you feel your sustained turns were tighter with flaps extended?

Thought I already answered the question but again yes sustained turn rate is higher with some flaps (one line seems optimal)

I have never found much reason to use them at all against the Mustang to be honest. I have never flown against another 109 or 190 in SP, or on a server. I have found myself really needing them just to stay up with the 109 in the P-51 though.

I am no ace pilot, that's for sure. But I have held my own and shot down a fair number of P-51's and never used flaps. Would I have done better had I used them? Dunno........maybe. In DCS (IMO) it's all preference. In reality.....I could not say.

I use flaps sometimes in the Bf-109 because...

1. Some pilots (esp. AI) slow down unexpectedly to make me overshoot

2. Sometimes the enemy I'm pursuing flies so slow that I cannot stay behind him without the flaps.

I read that Jochen Hartmann used flaps and even landing gear to slow down abruptly when he had a RAF fighter breathing down his neck.

Using flaps is a bit dangerous unless you dose them well. If you forget that they're extended and you continue flying at well above 300 km/h the flaps get locked and you cannot retract them. And then you are a lame duck